RE: (TV) Young's vs Verlaine's playing/styles/Ms Secret X please weigh- inon Young/Flash Light vs 1st solo record

[bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM]

I have to check out Buffalo Springfield. I think Robert Christgau compared
the Stone Roses to them. What gives?

Regards,

Micah 


-----Original Message-----
From: eric s gregory [mailto:esgregory@uswest.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:49 AM
To: tv@obbard.com
Subject: Re: (TV) Young's vs Verlaine's playing/styles/Ms Secret X
please weigh- inon Young/Flash Light vs 1st solo record


hear hear....i dig young's primal ooze solos ("everybody
knows this is nowhere"), but verlaine's stuff is meaty &
ascendent/transcendent...young's guitar work is too often
deep in the mire (tho that's sometimes what i wanna
hear/where i wanna be).
add to the fact that verlaine's a superior writer...
i really truly absolutely (pls pay attention here anyone who
wants to call me anti-neil) "everybody knows," "zuma,"
"tonight's the night," & tracks from many other records, but
to my ears, he's been making virtually the same half-cocked
album for many many many many years (decades??) now.
buffalo springfield were AMAZING.

aside: the rhythm guitar on the early neil & crazy horse
recs is mind-blowing...so hypnotic!!!

"Casey, Leo J" wrote:
> 
> At the risk of sounding like I'm bashing Neil Young and starting a
brouhaha----I'm not, I like "Zuma", "On the Beach", "American Stars and
Bars" ('It's a cold bowl of chili when love let's you down.'), and other of
his records---it has always amazed me how many people think that Young's and
Verlaine's guitar playing are very similar.  (Over the years I have never
read anywhere in my fanatical/voluminous collection of Television/Verlaine
articles, where  Verlaine talks about Neil Young as a guitar influence (or
even mentions Young, even when the interviewer brings up Young's name), and
I'm not sure, but I'd guess there's a chance Neil doesn't know Verlaine even
exists.
> 
> Verlaine in the rare instances where he even discusses guitar
influences(?)--maybe guitar favorites/influences is a more accurate
phrase---usually has mentioned people like Keith Richards, Garage bands of
the Nuggets era (e.g., The Chocolate Watchband), the Kinks' Dave Davies, the
Yardbirds, the Byrds, Mike Bloomfield, John Lee Hooker(!), and jazz people
such as: Coltrane, Ayler, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, and
Ornette Coleman---and finally classical guys like Pablo Casals and Sibelius
> 
> I find Verlaine's playing much more improvisational and cerebral, whereas
Neil's solos--- although quite good---are very similar to one another
sonically and in structure---and even at times repetitive---at least to me.
(Yikes!  I can actually hear the beginning clatter of MMlist members'
fingers as they furiously type at their keyboards to tell me I'm a fool
who's got lousy ears. Just remember I like Neil; it's just that, in my
humble opinion, his guitar playing is not in the same league as
Verlaine's--but then nobody else is either.)
> 
> Ms Secret X, can you give the us any info on whether Neil influenced Tom's
playing, and/or Tom's opinion of Young's guitar  playing?
> 
> Those of you who detest music critics especially those you describe
Verlaine's playing as a hybrid of Keith Richards and Coltrane, read on at
your own peril.
> 
> Stephen Holden, The New York Times:
> 
> "Tom Verlaine has matured into one of rock music's very finest guitarists
by steering a course that is only distantly related to the virtuosic blues
oriented tradition of the rock mainstream. Mr. Verlaine's surreal dream
songs, with their hypnotic, repetitive phrases usually set in minor keys,
are essentially rock tone poems, in which the implications of his stark
surreal lyrics are elaborated in majestic, exquisitely colored guitar solos.
This stark solitary lyricism is not likely ever to earn a mass audience, and
it's power has never fully been captured on record, because Mr. Verlaine's
albums emphasize the raw strangulated singing voice ... The group's chunky,
visceral arrangements, with their martial rhythms and passionate guitar
tanglings between Mr. Verlaine and Mr. Ripp, reminded one at times of Neil
Young and Crazy Horse, but the arrangements had a grander sense of structure
and a more precise articulation. Mr. Verlaine and his band may very well be
the most accomp!
li!
sh!
> !
> ed guitar-oriented rock quartet in America today."
> 
> Although I love Flash Light, I would second Phillip's recent preference
for Verlaine's 1st solo record over Flash Light (and for me Dreamtime is
second):
> 
> "Verlaine's solos have always been prolonged teases, indefinitely
postponing resolution, taking daring circular detours and abruptly changing
direction, avoiding the note you're waiting for. The beautiful solos on
'Last Night' seem to rise and fall simultaneously, a tight maze of dead ends
miraculously transcended, like Coltrane's unaccompanied sax excursion on the
Selflessness live version of 'I Want To Talk About You' with its devastating
barrage of false endings. The 'Breakin' in My Heart' solo is equally static,
riding Verlaine's best groove since 'Marquee Moon', gradually adding notes
to the same riff without going anywhere-another Coltrane dynamic. On the
same song, and also on 'Red Leaves' and 'Kingdom Come', . . .Verlaine
introduces a new guitar hook on the final choruses, pushing near-perfect
cuts a step further." (John Piccarella, 'Tom Verlaine Wakes Up Dreaming',
The Village Voice)
> 
> And last but not least:  Jon Pareles, 'Where the Wild Things Are', The
Village Voice:
> 
> "He's one of a handful of players who can still hear the electric guitar
as a fantasy instrument, a dream: a guitar that can hit harder and sustain
longer than any acoustic version bound by physical laws. Most guitarists who
reach a certain level of agility use the fretboard like a keyboard,
forgetting the visceral, while the best noisy plunkers-Keith Richards, for
instance-have no use for lyricism. But Verlaine's dreamscapes demand both
extremes: when things get too ethereal, he digs in blues licks like pitons
sharpened with John Cipollina's trebly vibrato; if the bottom gets too
gritty, he floats a time-stopper out of Miles Davis. Verlaine is no guitar
hero-just the opposite. Instead of redoubling the bass riff for maximum
impact, he'll play a counterpoint; when a chord progression threatens too
tidy a conclusion, he'll shift into modal scales (Dorian instead of minor,
Mixolydian instead of major) that dissipate the momentum. And when he does
build a crescendo, as he doe!
s !
in!
> !
>  'There's a Reason' on Dreamtime, he can toss off a sequence that, for its
lift and sculptural proportions, might as well be spun-steel bridge cable."
> 
>         Leo, the Pack-rat
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Grant [mailto:GGrant@scdhb.sk.ca]
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:43 AM
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Subject: RE: (TV) On the Beach
> 
> On the Beach is pretty good but I'm not into Marky Mark ;-)
> 
> Greg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tv-owner@obbard.com [mailto:tv-owner@obbard.com]On Behalf Of Billy
> Ancell
> I promise this is the last on Neil
> 
> Anybody out there into On the Beach? MM and this have
> to be my two favourite records.
> 
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