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Re: (TV) Splash! / Pretentious Psychedelic Caterwaul
all i can say is yep, leo: yr entitled to yr opine.
but using the words of others (particularly those of
rockcrits like christgau...as outta touch & sterile a
"human" as yr likely to encounter) to defend yr
position is like using retarded kids for cover...
:-)
& ps: i'll take "crocodiles" & "ocean rain" (which
owes a hell of alot more to "forever changes" than any
tv) over "dreamtime", "words from the front", "warm &
cool" & "cover" tho not the 1st or "flashlight"...
--- "Casey, Leo J" <CaseyL@VOLPE.DOT.GOV> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric gregory
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Subject: Re: (TV) Echo
> >..& "my kingdom " is a beautiful song (as is the
> rest of "ocean rain",
> >probably the bunnymen's high point)....sergeant is
> always worth a listen
> >& even tho he's been playing the same 3 or 4
> variations on one guitar lick,
> >it's a fucking great one. anyhow, point here is
> that the bunnymen up to the
> >best of (say, 85 or thereabouts ...basically up
> until pete defreitas split
> >the band) were a major fuggin band. *i wouldn't
> hesitate to say that
> >"crocodiles" & "ocean rain" & choice cuts off the
> other recs stand up to
> >& are superior to) alotta verlaine solo... dive in,
> leo....*
> --------------------------------------
> Hey Eric, them's fightin' words!
>
> I'll probably offend all the Echo and the Bunnymen
> fans on list (and maybe even
> some who aren't fans), but what the hell that's
> never stopped me before. Could
> you define "alotta verlaine solo" for me? If you
> mean stuff like "Yonki Time",
> "Present Arrived", "Kaliedescopin'" or even "Warm &
> Cool", then maybe you're right
> (and Will Seargent's certainly a talent); however,
> IMHO, Echo and the Bunnymen's
> "Crocodiles" and "Ocean Rain" can't hold a candle to
> the quality of the first
> two Verlaine solo records' songwriting, sheer
> originality, guitar prowess,
> and, most remarkable of all, the emotion and feeling
> expressed in Verlaine's
> playing.
>
> Moreover, E & the B from their trendy, little,
> neo-psychedelic niche wouldn't
> have known where to begin to create songs like
> "Postcard From Waterloo",
> "5 Miles of You", "4 AM", "Scientist Writes a
> Letter", "Anna", "Words From the
> Front", "Oh Foolish Heart", Prayer", "Annie's
> Telling Me", etc.
>
> "Word was these erstwhile-and-futurist popsters had
> transcended songform, so I gritted my teeth and
> tried to dig the
> texture, flow, etc. Took the enamel clean off. I
> hold no brief against tuneless caterwaul, but
> tuneless psychedelic
> caterwaul has always been another matter. Ditto for
> existential sophomores. And, need I add, Jim
> Morrison worship.
> ... In a desperate attempt to market Ian McCulloch's
> crumpled shirts and skin problems (two of the most
> likable things
> about him, I'd say), Warner's pulls two top cuts off
> 'Porcupine'. Revealingly, they're the two worst
> things here, though the
> 'The Cutter' is a pretentious dog (quills sticking
> out all over the little bugger), 'Back of Love' is
> merely more histrionic
> than the competition. Suggested motto: 'Do It
> Clean', which here builds to a casual vocal rave-up
> in a seven-minute
> concert version that could almost make you believe
> these spaced-out student existentialists were
> rock-and-rollers.
> ... It also includes a lyric sheet, which taught me
> nothing I wanted to know."[From: Robert Christgau's
> Record Guide:The 80s]
>
> Verlaine: "I'm not real familiar with all these new
> groups that come pouring out of
> England. I heard Echo and the Bunnymen; there was a
> lot of Television stuff in there,
> and I was real surprised. I try not to just hear a
> riff and go play it. When I hear a
> band who's heard a riff and played it backwards or
> maybe even put it so that instead
> of being in the first measure it happens in the
> second, I'm surprised, 'cause I don't
> work that way. I'm used to hearing that crap on the
> radio, the billionth generation of
> some riff in a Top 40 song. I'm not used to hearing
> something that I may have come up
> with, and it strikes me as kind of odd." [From
> TROUSER PRESS January 1982, No. 69
> 'TOM VERLAINE' by Toby Goldstein]
>
> And in the interest of fairness and equal time:
> "This vanguard foursome---at its inception, a trio
> plus Echo the drum machine---emerged
> from the ostensible Liverpool renaissance with a
> debut album striking in its starkness
> and power. Unlike alsorans with the same ideas, Ian
> McCulloch's specter of Jim Morrison
> vocals are no mere pilferage; where Morrison would
> have ordered you on your knees,
> McCulloch does it himself, alternately writhing in
> resistance or slumped in
> resignation to the agonies of a whole'nother decade.
> On'Crocodiles', the scratchy yet
> ringing guitar and unhurriedly relentless, pounding
> drums set the sonic scene for
> McCulloch's sometimes ambivalently delivered
> existential crises."
> [The New Trouser Press Record Guide, Ira Robbins &
> Jon Young]
>
> I could be disingenuous and tell you that I'll give
> "Ocean Rain" another listen tonight, but I already
> did yesterday and
> this morning and I must report: that record does
> not have a soul; it is completely devoid
> [pronounced as the non-French
> 'Voidoid' (or 'android')] of feeling with the
> exception of affectation. I have met/heard the
> Bunnymen and thy music is
> called prententiousness. "Ocean Rain" is a fuggin'
> abomination---even the string orchestra sounds cold
> and
> sterile---the equal to Marquee Moon, my arse. [Jay,
> you'd better bring your boxing gloves to NYC on the
> 19th :-) ]
>
> Summing up: I like Television's & TV's music; I
> don't like E & the B; I respect the fact that some
> will agree with
> those opinions, and that some will disagree, but I
> will defend to the death---if necessary---your right
> to have 'em.
>
>
> Leo :^)
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