(TV) Interview from 87

[Claudia <razoomyyy@yahoo.de>]

Hmm, hope anyone will enjoy reading this.

The Tom Tom Bomb
Sounds, Feb 21 1987

One of the great seminal figures of modern rock, Tom
Verlaine talks to Robin Gibson about his excellent new
solo LP, Flash Light.

Talking to Tom Verlaine comes in two parts.
Part one is where you catch yourself wishing youd
dropped your car keys down a drain. Surely an
afternoon on your knees with bent coathanger and a
muddy arm would prove easier than trying to prise
pearls of wisdom from these clenched, nervy lips.
But part one only lasts about half-an-hour.
Hell say things like another year, another album
with a cynical, if good-humoured detachment. Hell
talk about the importance of relative parts in his
approach to musi-making. Rather drily, hell profess a
love for the true use of the language of music in the
symphonic tradition and a disregard for current rock
n roll use of what he sees as rhetoric.
Basically, hell confirm your suspicions about his
artistic intensity  and hell chainsmoke into the
bargain.
If part one is going to depict Tom Verlaine as some
sort of dull, worthy, tasteful old fogey, then its
not worth dwelling on. But its worth rescuing this
A lot of it is very spontaneous for me. Describing
any process sounds cold, because it becomes
reflective. It somehow leaves out all the
emotionality, and even the physicality of it. Its
like, I cant really reproduce these guitar solos. I
listen to em and I realise, Well that goes there and
this goes herebut I dont really know what the notes
were
You try to surprise yourself, I think. Sometimes it
works, sometimes it doesnt. Maybe its down to the
mood youre in that day.
Tom Verlaine has been making records with Fender
guitars, bass and drums for ten years or so. He must
be in a pretty good mood most of the days he makes
one.

Part two is where he opens up, chomps thoughtfully on
a croissant, occasionally forgets where he started
(mainly because he enjoys leaping off at outrageous
tangents) and generally seems to explain things for
his own benefit as much as anyones.
He takes quite a childlike delight in discovering
things as he talks; he takes care not to give too much
away about himself.
Flash Light is his fifth solo album. If 1981s
Dreamtime with its dense, frenetic climax was the
logical end to the style of grand guitar drama that
the first Television album Marquee Moon ushered in,
then even Flash Light is a natural descendant of his
last LP, the brilliant Cover.
Cover was a masterly redirection of his resources,
featuring some of his calmest, most spacious, subtly
orchestrated and adventurous songs. And though Flash
Light zigzags less than Cover, housing nothing as
exploratory as Travelling or as perversely
picturesque as Swim, it contains plenty of great
moments.
Songs like Bomb and Cry Mercy Judge are as taut
and thrilling as anything hes done; The Scientist,
One Time At Sundown or At 4am as beautiful and
intriguing as any classic Verlaine.
Like all of his music, it sounds unique and it
describes the vision of someone whose approach to rock
music has always been unique. Its electric and
exciting, but somehow it sidesteps the crudity,
baseness or craziness that is implicit in the term
great rock n roll.
Mmmbut there is something crazy in it, he argues.
For lack of a better word, theres something
irrational in a lot of it. It seems to surface more in
the guitar solos and the vocals and lyricsthe subject
matter of the songs, which isnt conscious at all,
really. They seem to explore either very high-spirited
moments, or some kind of dangerous moments where
peoples live are at stake.
There often seems to be a sense of elation in
Verlaines songs; but in something like A Town Called
Walker, the new single, the tone seems to be one of
reflection.
Well, that is actually a very tragic song. Its about
this very naove girl whos going back to someplace,
this town, and shes making excuses for it, and for
the people thereit is a very B-movie sort of thing.
But Ive seen people do this in their lives, its
very real. Theyll come to New York and complain, this
place is too crazy, its too fast, and go back to
their hometown or whateverand in a way, its worse.
They find they have to continually adapt to a bad
environment  which has, in a sense, been known to be
the root of all disorder. When you find yourself
having to adapt to bad situations, you become part of
the situation yourself.
The story sounds straightforward, but terming it
tragic lends a certain romance to the telling of it,
I suggest.
Well, I like the term straightforward, he goes on,
completely disregarding my second point. This is
precisely what I tried to be on this record. For
instance, Annies Tellin Me had a very, um,
thoughtful  quote, unquote  lyric. But I thought, I
dont really want this, the person to the song is
dealing with doesnt talk like thisshe talks!
So I ended up using clichis, using these things where
the character is just put before the public. On this
record, though the characters are creations or voices
speaking through a song, there was a sense of allowing
them to be themselves, to be dumb. Just allowing them
that existence, without trying to be clever about it.
The other thing thats come up over and over again is
a theme of corruption. Like, the corrupt judge on Cry
Mercy Judge; Say A Prayer, which has this guy
deciding the world is on the take and thinking
immediately, Well, this is how it is, Im corrupt as
well; and again in Walker, the girl going back to a
corrupt place, naively. 
Now, none of this conflict is really resolved 
whether it is corrupt, or not. Song is about these
people who cant seem to talk to each other; and then
again in The Scientist, the guy writes a letter, and
its obvious he adores the woman hes writing tobut
what does he write? He tells her these nothing little
facts, and theres a whole feeling of being unable to
communicate
In Sundown, he continues, the guy is trying to,
ah, retrieve something. Going back to pick up what he
dropped. The literal metaphor would be somebody
dropped a valuable jewel, or object, or a personal
charm. Its this naove belief in a holy grail, or
something that is actually nothing but a signifier of
either a state of consciousness, or elation, to use
your word.

The half-eaten croissant is reclining forgotten in his
lap. He lights a cigarette from the end of his last
one.
I just found this whole theme of either
inarticulateness or corruptionI dont know how or why
all this stuff surfaced, though
Are these your obsessions?  
Ummaybe theyre symptoms of an obsession, he
smiles. But I dont know what that obsession might
be. It is curious, because its basically a very
upbeat record. Yet the lyric themes are dealing with
difficult things.
Difficult for you?
Well, not difficult for me, because to me theyre
expressions of something. But, he wonders, Im not
sure what theyre expressions of! In a simple way,
theyre releases of tension, or relaxations of tension
that isnt essential.
Yet the obvious way to describe what Verlaine does
might be to say that its creating a tension which is
essential
Yeah, well, that might be the paradox. Ones creating
it to resolve itthe snake biting its tail, sort of
effect. There is, perhaps, an attempt in this record
to explore the inability to say what one means
Have you ever tried any other means of expression
apart from music?
Well, I used to draw a lot, In fact, I used to paint
between the ages 12 and 15. I did quite a bit. And I
always kept notebooksthis was how I learned to write.
I started to write little, terrible poems, usually
about monsters. The first things I ever wrote were
about King Tut and Godzilla. I had a great boyhood
thing about monsters.
I used to have the same, about dinosaurs, I remark.
Actually, I used to have all these little plastic
dinosaurs. I used to go and rake leaves on peoples
lawns, in the fall, after school theyd give you
about 50p, I guess, and these dinosaur things were
about 90p
Verlaine looks more like the sort of person who still
spends his time raking leaves than the sensitive,
poetic type he is. His uncertain twitches, his heavy
hands, right down to his big workmans boots: none of
it seems to correlate with his music.
Is the attention to detail in his records as much a
characteristic of the everyday Tom?
Ahhahaha! I dont knowI mean, the apartments I live
in, unless some woman is coming to stay there, are a
complete mess. Usually before someone shows up I have
to work on it for eight hours to make it look like
something other than a bear lives there. So if
neatness and detail have a relation, Im not a very
neat person. Its interesting. Id never thought of
applying that word to this before now.
Someone was asking me about the title of this album,
which is very deliberately supposed to be two
wordsand actually, what has been an obsession with me
is this idea ofyou know, the traditional flash of
light in which something becomes known.
The light bulb over the head?
Right. I was thinking of this kinda dream, about
walking in a room or a completely dark space, and the
light comes on very quick, and goes out very quickand
what did you see?
This may even have something to do with a childhood
memory that I havent quite unlocked yetthat
something very significant was seen in that bright
moment, that somehow still remains nebulous, cant
quite be incorporated into your daily lifestyle. Im
not quite sure how that is involved with the people on
the albumbut it could be that thats exactly whats
missing from the whole thing.
I often think, in fact completely believe, that
people whatever theyre working in are feeling their
way in the darkthat its not important to know what
youre doing. I mean, yeah, you can set up a method
for yourself.
Apparently mystery writers work this wayin the first
chapter introduce the crime, in the second the motives
and in the third the possible suspects. So you develop
a structure, fill it in and theres your thing. Ive
never been able to work this way at all

Even after ten years, a Verlaine single like A Town
Called Walker only reluctantly strays into commercial
territory  and anything hes recorded seems
incredibly tasteful and unpretentious in the shadow of
the Def Leppard sleeves that adorn the wall of the
Phonogram office were in.
Right. But the artificiality of thatfor some people
it becomes a whole number. Im thinking of David
Bowie, who is always pulling this, pulling that from
here and there. People who are manipulative seem to
have got further in the last ten years, quicker. Im
also thinking of people like Madonna, who has chosen a
whole set of ready-made images. Ive never been able
to find myself liking something which is only the
product of pure ambition, he decided, wincing as he
recalls a recent, extraordinarily vacuous Patsy Kensit
interview on The Tube.
Which makes me think  involuntarily  about something
else Verlaine has previously cited as an obsession:
sex, massive amounts of which, hes said, have seemed
apparent to him, on reflection, in his music.
Pushed on this, though, his talent for tangents
ascends to an even higher level.
Yeahbut sex is a world where all sorts of other
things get placed, somehow. What springs to mind are
some of these so-called sexual perversions, like
55-year-old businessmen who hire girls and go through
the most bizarre practicesbeing pissed on, or
whatever. When you study it, that sort of behaviour
has nothing to do with sex whatsoever! I mean, what is
this guy really enacting??
When I was playing clubs in New York the kinda stuff
that used to go on was incredibleI mean, an
apparently enormous amount of sexual activity and
innuendo and attempted seduction all the time. And
yet, so much of it not really having anything to do
with sex
I used to get the most bizarre propositions playing
these clubs. I was packing up a guitar one night and
this girl came up to me and completely
matter-of-factly said, Had I ever beat up a girl
before? And I said, No and she said, Well Ill pay
your 200 dollars to come over to my house, tie me up
and beat me up! She had a whole design in mind, this
whole thing. I did not find this exciting at all, he
mutters wryly. In fact, I was incredibly
flabbergasted!
Anyway, someone I knew actually took her up on it,
apparently
Ah well, Tom Verlaine always did seem more sensible
than most of his contemporaries.
I think though, he says eventually, this thing
about sexthe sexual element of all rock n roll is
always there. Its just the kind of thrust the stuff
has and refuses to be drawn any further.

Tom Verlaine has been living, or at least based in
England for two-and-a-half years now, and hes aware
of  though not unduly concerned by  just how much
hes perceived as a seminal figure. 
After all of this and after the consistent excellence
of his solo work, a huge amount of interest in him is
centred around his status as just that, and
Televisions in particular. It might be unjust but
even in my house its more likely that Marquee Moon
is being aired than his solo albums.
Well, yeah I hear the guitar stuff all over the
place, Ive been hearing that for years. But Ill tell
youthis girl called me up and said, Have you heard
this guy Lloyd Cole? And I said, No. And she said,
Well, this is the first time Ive ever heard someone
try to sing like you. And I thought, Oh, no, it cant
be!
But I didnt hear it. And then when I signed to
Phonogram, this guy in the office put on this Lloyd
Cole record. And I couldnt figure out what it was,
but I knew that stuff sounded really familiar in the
weirdest way, and this guy says, Yeah, Hes totally
copped your vocal style! I thought, Come on, but he
says, No, its trueI know this guy.
And later on, I ran into him. And he asked me for an
autograph. I was just lookin at this guy thinkin,
whats this all about?
He might well ask.
Meanwhile, we should be thankful that one of the last
great innocents abroad in rock n roll is still one
of its greatest craftsmen and originators too.
Autograph hunters this way  



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