Re: (TV) Scoop on 'What I Heard'

[postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>]

Hmm...interesting.  Thanks again Leo and to you too Keith.


--- On Mon, 7/16/12, Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net>
> Subject: (TV) Scoop on 'What I  Heard'
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 5:10 PM
> The scoop on 'What IU Heard' 
> from Keith (and if you listen to 1982 's
> 'Postcard From Waterloo' you can hear the same melody).
> 
> Keith wrote, ""Although Verlaine's song, 'Without A Word',
> on the 1981
> album, Dreamtime,  uses some of the basic musical
> structure as the song,
> 'Hard On Love' below, they are not the same song--on the
> other hand, the
> structure and melody of 'What I Heard' would eventually
> become Verlaine's
> song 'Postcard From Waterloo'  from his album Words
> From The Front.".  
> 
> Leo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tv-owner@obbard.com
> [mailto:tv-owner@obbard.com]
> On Behalf Of
> postitnote
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:51 PM
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on writing
> credits/What I Heard?
> 
> Bob, you've found a lot of good info.  Thanks! Would
> you happen to have any
> info on the song 'What I Heard'.  I have that it's an
> early Television song
> w/ Hell still in the band?  Is that correct?  And
> it sounds like a Tom style
> song but the singing is done by Richard Lloyd, right? I
> can't make out any
> of the lyrics but wondered who wrote them...? 
> 
> Deb 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on writing
> credits
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 10:09 AM
> > Deb:
> > Oh, it was just the Tom interview you referred to
> before,
> > huh, not the Hell
> > one? I didn't actually re-find that Tom article today
> where
> > he accuses Hell of
> > stealing his music, but was just paraphrasing from
> memory
> > (hopefully, I got
> > the gist fairly close to correct!)
> > 
> > As we know, lot of officially unreleased Tom-related
> > recordings have found
> > their way onto bootlegs.  But Tom's managed to
> > successfully keep a lid on his
> > Neon Boys songs, somehow. Like you, I'd sure like to
> hear
> > them. The music on
> > the Hell sung ones is good, & presumably the Tom
> ones
> > are at least equally as
> > good. Even if Tom's not completely happy with the
> quality of
> > the recordings,
> > you'd think he might be willing to release them for
> > "historical" & fan
> > interest at least.
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on writing
> > credits
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Received: Monday, July 16, 2012, 12:03 PM
> > 
> > Thanks Bob for coming up w/ all of that info and
> finding
> > that Tom early Tom
> > interview (it was gonna take me some time). 
> Actually I
> > don't believe I've
> > read that Hell interview that you referred to here
> > before.  So thanks for
> > adding that also.  But I do remember he saying
> before
> > that all he knew
> > musically he learned from Tom.
> > 
> > It's really a shame that Tom doesn't care to release
> his
> > early Neon Boys
> > songs.  Prob he thinks why release such old stuff,
> when
> > it would mean a lot to
> > fans of his.  I love the Neon Boys stuff, where
> people
> > say Television wasn't
> > really 'punk', the Neon Boys were def more punkish.
> > 
> > BTW, is there any word as to when Hell's autobiography
> is
> > supposed to be
> > coming out?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> > > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on
> writing
> > credits
> > > To: tv@obbard.com
> > > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 8:34 AM
> > > Hey Deb:
> > > On checking my oldB  "Shake" labelB 
> vinyl
> > > single/e.p. with The Neon Boys'B
> > > "That's all I Know (Right Now)" & "Love Comes
> in
> > > Spurts", Phil's right in his
> > > recall of those songs being credited to
> > "Verlaine-Hell".
> > > Those two Neon Boys
> > > songs comprise one side. The other side isn't The
> Neon
> > Boys,
> > > but is Richard
> > > Hell & the Voidoids, with two songs, "Don't
> Die"
> > > (Hell-Julian), & "Time"
> > > (Hell).
> > >
> > > I bet some confusion may have stemmed from the
> e.p.
> > having
> > > The Neon Boys on
> > > one side, & Richard Hell & the Voidoids on
> the
> > > other, which might have led to
> > > the error in the listing you saw crediting "Don't
> Die"
> > to
> > > The Neon Boys.
> > >
> > > I found that Hell interview referred to by Deb I
> think
> > where
> > > Hell where he
> > > talks about how songs were co-written by he &
> Tom
> > in The
> > > Neon Boys.
> > > http://www.trakmarx.com/2003_05/050_hell.htm
> > > HELL QUOTE: "...There were three [Neon Boys] songs
> that
> > I
> > > sang and three songs
> > > that Tom sang. Tom
> > > wrote the instrumental music to all of it and I
> wrote
> > the
> > > words and the
> > > singing to the songs I sang. I was just starting
> to
> > learn
> > > music. I
> > > played the bass on the songs but it was all
> > rudimentary
> > > patterns.
> > > Basically Tom showed me what to play. We didnbt
> want
> > all
> > > that time to be
> > > completely wasted so we recorded the six songs and
> my
> > three
> > > songs are
> > > whatbs come out under the name Neon Boys. Tom
> wouldnbt
> > allow
> > > the songs
> > > he
> > > sang to come out and he has never released them.
> I
> > donbt
> > > know what
> > > his
> > > feelings are now, but he clearly hasnbt wanted to
> put
> > out
> > > the ones
> > > that he
> > > wrote. He agreed to do that little Shake single
> which
> > > eventually
> > >  got
> > > re-released. The first version on Shake just had
> two
> > songs,
> > > bThatbs
> > >  All I
> > > Knowb and the early version of bLove Comes In
> Spurtsb,
> > which
> > > has
> > > nothing in common with the Voidoidsb version,
> except
> > the
> > > title.
> > > Different
> > > music, different words. And then when I released
> it
> > with
> > > Overground [records]
> > > I added the third song, bHigh Heeled Wheelsb. And
> > > that was the whole
> > > history of the Neon Boys."
> > >
> > > - I first read the above Hell interview years ago,
> but
> > > realized just today my
> > > recall was faulty re. what Hell said re.
> co-writing
> > with
> > > Tom, 'cause my foggy
> > > memory was of Hell saying
> > > Television songs he sang were all co-written with
> Tom,
> > with
> > > Tom writing all
> > > the instrumental music. It may be a possibility
> Hell's
> > > Television songs were
> > > all co-written with Tom the same way as the Neon
> Boys
> > ones
> > > were, but that's
> > > not what Hell says here, as he only talks about
> > co-writing
> > > Neon Boys songs.
> > > For a long while, based on my errant memory of
> the
> > above
> > > Hell quote, I assumed
> > > since "Blank Generation" was a song Hell sang in
> > Television,
> > > that Tom likely
> > > wrote the song's music but was not credited as
> > co-writer on
> > > the Voidoids
> > > album.
> > >
> > > There's a late '70s Tom interview I think Deb
> refers
> > to
> > > (part of that articles
> > > collection I earlier posted a link to in this
> forum:
> > > http://www.4shared.com/zip/yNdZURDR/tom_verlaine_television_etc_ar.html
> > > )
> > > where Tom does accuse Hell of essentially stealing
> his
> > music
> > > & using it on the
> > > Blank Generation album. As I recall, Tom said when
> he
> > > listened to that first
> > > Voidoids album he heard a bunch of Neon Boys music
> on
> > it
> > > he'd come up with,
> > > although I don't think he mentioned Hell "thefts"
> of
> > > Television material
> > > specifically, just Neon Boys music.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 7/15/12, postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
> > > To: tv@obbard.com
> > > Received: Sunday, July 15, 2012, 8:17 PM
> > >
> > > Yeah, I'd appreciate you checking the credits.B 
> > But I
> > > agree about there prob
> > > being a lot of 'looseness' back then.B  And
> if
> > Tom
> > > wasn't worried about it...
> > > B
> > > Would you know who is credited w/ writing most of
> the
> > > Voidoids songs?B B B
> > >
> > > If I run across that interview I talked about I'll
> post
> > it
> > > here.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 7/15/12, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
> > > > To: "tv@obbard.com"
> > > <tv@obbard.com>
> > > > Date: Sunday, July 15, 2012, 2:19 PM
> > > > I'll have to check the credits when I
> > > > am home, but I believe the 3 release
> > > > Neon Boys tracks (all sung by Hell) are
> credited
> > lyrics
> > > to
> > > > Hell, music to
> > > > Hell/Verlaine, but I could be wrong.
> > > >
> > > > There is a lot of looseness in credits
> > > > back then; if Verlaine really did co-write
> the
> > music
> > > for
> > > > "High Heeled Wheels",
> > > > then he deserved a credit for "You Gotta
> Lose"
> > that I
> > > am
> > > > sure he does not get.
> > > > And who can forget how many tracks the
> > Heartbreakers
> > > > "borrowed" from Hell once
> > > > he left, or added their names to the
> credits?
> > "Chinese
> > > > Rocks" had his name
> > > > stripped from the credits, "Love Comes in
> Spurts"
> > was
> > > given
> > > > new lyrics to
> > > > become "One Track Mind", etc...
> > > >
> > > > --Phil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > To: tv@obbard.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday,
> > > > July 15, 2012 2:11 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
> > > >B
> > > > Okay, thanks.
> > > > I've got that cleared up now.
> > > >
> > > > On, the Neon Boys though, even though some
> > > > songs are Richard Hell songs.B  wasn't
> all of
> > the
> > > music
> > > > written by Tom though?
> > > > I mean, Richard sings some of the songs where
> the
> > > 'lyrics'
> > > > are his.B
> > > >
> > > > I also
> > > > remember an interview w/ Tom and I believe it
> was
> > > British
> > > > (an early one) and
> > > > he was asked about Hell's music outside of
> > > Television/Neon
> > > > Boys.B  Tom said
> > > > sthg like Hell borrowed some of his music, as
> he
> > could
> > > hear
> > > > it in some of the
> > > > songs.B  Tom said that he didn't really
> mind
> > > > though.B  I'm sorry that I don't
> > > > remember which interview that was as I read
> that
> > awhile
> > > back
> > > > and my memory
> > > > sucks.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not putting down Richard as he's def a
> > talented
> > > guy.
> > > >
> > > > Is this
> > > > valid or am I off-base?
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 7/14/12, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't
> > > > Die' question?
> > > > > To: "tv@obbard.com"
> > > > <tv@obbard.com>
> > > > > Date: Saturday, July
> > > > 14, 2012, 5:36 PM
> > > > > It's a Voidoids demo v. 1979. It
> > > > > appears, along with a
> > > > similar demo of "Time",
> > > > > on the same release from Shake (and
> later
> > > > Overground) that
> > > > > gave us the only
> > > > > Neon Boys material we've heard to date.
> > > > >
> > > > > So "Time" and "Don't Die" have
> > > > > nothing do to with Television, other
> > > > than being Richard Hell
> > > > > solo material.
> > > > > More info on Keith's
> > > > > site:
> > > > http://www.thewonder.co.uk/facts/bandrels.htm#Singles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --Phil
> > > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > >B  From: postitnote
> > > > <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > > To: tv@obbard.com
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 14,
> > > > 2012 8:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: (TV)
> > > > > 'Don't Die' question?
> > > > >B
> > > > > I wonder if
> > > > anyone could clear this up for me?B 
> There
> > > > > is the song attributed to the Neon
> > > > Boys called 'Don't Die'
> > > > > (great song).B
> > > > >
> > > > > I
> > > > > have this song listed as a
> > > > Neon Boys song but I noticed in
> > > > > some comments that
> > > > > people are saying that
> > > > this recording is actually a demo
> > > > > played by Richard
> > > > > Hell and the Voidoids
> > > > for Sire Records.B  I still will
> > > > > presume that it was
> > > > > actually written by
> > > > Tom and the lyrics were done by Hell
> > > > > (they made a great
> > > > > team).B  But so the
> > > > recording is actually Richard and
> > > > > the Voidoids playing it,
> > > > > instead of the
> > > > Neon Boys?B  Is that true?
> > > > > --------------
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