Re: (TV) anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry Butler's(of Warner Bros.)book,via Lefsetz

[postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>]

And did you notice, someone posted this in the comments:

09:11 PM on 07/16/2012
The actual history is a bit different. There are a few really good books about this subject, including a book called All Hopped Up and Ready to Go that came out a few years back. Anyway Hilly Crystal had a club called Hilly's On the Bowery at the same address that he would later open CBGB. The first band asociated with the NYC underground rock scene (ie, the Mercer Arts Center scene) to play at that Hilly's was the Magic Tramps in October 1972. This featured Eric Emerson, as well as his friend and later Blondie founder Chris Stein who would sit in with them. Others bands that played the venue around this time were Wayne County and Suicide. When the Mercer Arts Center collapsed the location had not been really established as a rock venue but it was known among the downtown musicians. Anyway TV began to play there in March, 1974. At the time TV's basist Richard Hell was dating Elda Gentie, who was in the band the Stillitoes with Debbie Harry and Chris
 Stein. So the Stilletoes starting playing there in eraly May, 1974. Debbie and Chris knew Tommy Ramone, so the Ramones learned about the venue and played with Blondie (which grew out of the Stillitoes) in August, 1974. Pattti Smith, through Verlaine, began playing there in early 1975. The Talking Heads arrived in 1975 after the scene had already started to develop.
Everyone has a different memory. 

BTW, thanks Dave for looking up the info you put up.  In my head, I was thinking that Patti was playing there sooner than she did.

I'm trying to catch up w/ all the reading here.  I was gonna read that Trax/Hell interview now but I think it'll have to wait till tomorrow as it's so long, but it should be interesting. And I see that Keith has new articles up to read too....YaY!

Another thing of question, I wonder who it was w/ Tom when he was walking down the street, saw Hilly on the ladder and talked to him.  The stories being that it was Tom and R. Hell, Tom and R. Lloyd, all 3 of them together, or Tom and some honky-tonk piano player. haha  Wonder which is the truth...  





--- On Wed, 7/18/12, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: (TV) anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry Butler's(of      Warner  Bros.)book,via Lefsetz
> To: "tv@obbard.com" <tv@obbard.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 5:29 PM
> The Larry Butler story is getting
> picked-up elsewhere, too:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/cbgb-drama-rock-club_n_1677947.html
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> To:
> tv@obbard.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: (TV)
> anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry Butler's(of 
>    Warner  Bros.)book,via
> Lefsetz
>  
> [correction to my prior post below, which should read]:
> "...Blondie
> (as "The Stillettos")
> opened for Television May 5, 1974, 3+ months before The
> Ramones ever played
> there."
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Bob Beatty
> <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> From: Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> Subject:
> Re: (TV) anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry
> Butler's(of    Warner
> Bros.)book,via Lefsetz
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Received: Wednesday, July 18, 2012,
> 8:05 PM
> 
> Interesting factoids you cite, DayMarRnR. My uninformed
> guess was
> wrong re.
> The Ramones being  first band to play CBGB after
> Television. For
> instance, I
> see in the Wikipedia CBGB article you cite that Blondie (as
> "The
> Stillettos")
> opened for Television May 5, 1974, 5 months before The
> Ramones
> ever played
> there, & about 5 weeks after Television's first CBGB gig
> you found
> the March
> 30 '74 date for.
> [I hope my apostrophes aren't going to mysteriously
> all turn into "b"s again
> today as they did yesterday in messages posted to
> this MM/TV mailing list. I
> don't know what might have caused that.]
> 
> -- On
> Tue, 7/17/12, DavMarRnR <davmarrnr@aol.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From: DavMarRnR
> <davmarrnr@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: (TV) anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry
> Butler's(of   Warner
> Bros.)book,via Lefsetz
> To: "tv@obbard.com"
> <tv@obbard.com>
> Received: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 4:54 PM
> 
> As far as a cbgb's
> timeline, a quick check of several sources has TV making
> their debut there
> 3/30/74
> 
> Ramones 8/16/74 (per Love Goes To Building On Fire-Will
> Hermes book
> p. 71)
> 
> Patti Smith 2/14/75 per Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:08 PM,
> Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> > Deb:
> > Interesting question. I don't
> know the true answer to which bands were
> first
> > after Television to play
> CBGBs, but The Ramones were surely among the
> > earliest,
> > & my guess would be
> they were next to play there after Television started.
> And
> > my guess about
> Patti is she may have started singing there some weeks or
> > months later.
> Maybe someone else here knows more about this-?
> > [Re. "What I Heard",  I
> don't know anything about the song. Luckily, Leo &
> > Keith know some details
> about it].
> >
> > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: (TV)
> anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from Larry Butler's(of 
> Warner
> > Bros.)book,via
> Lefsetz
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Received: Monday, July 16, 2012, 5:24 PM
> >
> >
> When I read the first part of this, I also thought, man that
> sounds
> >
> bogus...Tom suggesting those other bands to Hilly, huh?
> >
> > Patti was one of
> the first ones to join in over there, right?  Or was
> it
> The
> > Ramones?
> >
> >
> >
> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Bob
> Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>
> >> Subject: (TV) anecdotes re. Tom Verlaine from
> Larry Butler's(of Warner
> > Bros.)book,via Lefsetz
> >> To: tv@obbard.com
> >>
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 11:32 AM
> >> Music & music biz opinionator Bob
> >>
> Lefsetz mentioned this in yesterday's
> >> edition of his Lefsetz Letter he
> sends out free by email:
> >>
> http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2012/07/15/lying-2/
> >> QUOTE:
> "Ibm reading Larry Butlerbs book. 'Larry Butler,
> >> whobs that?' Mr.
> >> Butler
> was an artist development guy at Warner Brothers
> >> forever, when it
> >> was
> >>
> still the WB we knew and loved. And before that he was a
> >> musician,
> >> he
> opened
> >> for the Stones! Well, Ibm getting ahead of myself.
> You see
> >> thatbs
> a story
> >> Larry tells in his book. Itbs full of nuggets.
> >> The basic
> concepts are not
> >> new, but itbs a fun read, to find out Hilly
> >> Kristal was
> an unwitting
> >> beneficiary of Tom Verlainebs inability to find
> >> anywhere to
> feature
> >> Television. Yup, Verlaine asked Hilly to play at
> >> CBGB, a
> relatively dead bar,
> >> on a dead night, Monday, and Television
> >> played to
> the usual suspects, a dozen
> >> friends of the band. But amongst
> >> that group
> was a reporter for the "Village
> >> Voice". Who concocted the
> >> story that
> Liza Minnelli had been seen there, back
> >> when she actually was
> >> a
> scenester, and the venue filled up the following
> >> week. And eventually
> >>
> Hilly asked Tom if he knew of any other acts that could
> >> play. Tom said
> >>
> Blondie, the Ramones, Talking Heads, Patti Smithb&and
> >> the
> >> rest is
> >>
> history."
> >>
> >> -Then Lefsetz published an interesting response
> >>
> http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2012/07/15/lying-2/
> >> from
> Talking Heads'B  Chris Frantz after Frantz read
> >> the above passage about
> >>
> Tom Verlaine.
> >>
> >> CHRIS FRANTZ QUOTE: "Greetings from France, Bob. I
> remember
> >> Larry Butler well.
> >> We visited
> >> many a radio station and
> record store together promoting
> >> Talking
> >> Heads.
> >> Hebs a good guy and I
> look forward to reading his book. Let
> >> me just
> >> say
> >> one thing about Tom
> Verlaine, though. I donbt think Tom
> >> ever
> >> recommended
> >> any band to play
> CBGBs and certainly not Talking Heads. I
> >> was the
> >> one
> >> who approached
> Hilly on our bandbs behalf. As far as I know,
> >> Tom
> >> Verlaine has never
> done a single favor for anyoneb&not
> >> even himself.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Chris
> Frantz"
> >> -That last line Frantz wrote's an "ouch" zinger
> ("...not
> >> even
> himself")!
> >> Before reading Frantz's response, I didn't think
> Butler's
> >>
> account sounded
> >> right either, as I'd never heard or read anything
> before
> >>
> suggesting Tom
> >> recommended other bands to Hilly Kristal in the
> early days.
> >> And I recall from
> >> the Ramones doc. "End of the Century", Joey Ramone
> >>
> explaining how they first
> >> found out about CBGB from seeing an ad in the
> Village
> >> VoiceB  advertising
> >> Television playing there. He didn't say
> anything about Tom
> >> acting on behalf of
> >> the Ramones to help get them gigs
> by recommending them to
> >> Hilly. As we know,
> >> Dee Dee Ramone had once
> auditioned as a bass player for
> >> Television, I guess it
> >> was before Hell
> joined.
> >> --------------
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