RE: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach

[Murray Ramone <murrayramone@hotmail.com>]

Umm, I hate to break it to you Leo, but maybe ..... just maybe ..... these 50
women were using it as an excuse to protect your feelings ?

Next time just lie about what you like - pretend its the same as her
favourites "yeah yeah, I LOVE that shit too, whatever it is ....", but make
sure you play them Marquee Moon when you get them back to "Leo's house of
love" - the cd version on repeat of course ..... you'll soon win them over

I got given a couple of the 33 1/3 books, the Ramones first album one which is
good, but nothing I hadnt heard before (although well researched ) which I
keep in the toilet because its good to dip into and the one on exile on main
street by bill janovitz, which I've never read read.

Leo, you should write your own book ?

> From: LeoCasey@comcast.net
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Subject: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach
> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:05:14 -0400
>
> Regarding:
>
> > Now, with regards to the idea of writing a book on Marquee Moon itself,
>
> >you're dead right; there's going to be more need to refer to Ayler and the
>
> >Stones or Dylan, for starters, than the Ramones, and more than a chapter's
>
> >worth of band history detailing the Hell years is off-message overkill.
>
>
>
> I would say this description from this link
> (http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541
>
<http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541&SubjectId=1381
&Subject2Id=1396>
> &SubjectId=1381&Subject2Id=1396 ) does not bode well at all: 331/3:
>
> "A **thoroughly researched** study of the **origins of the New York City
punk scene** [emphasis
> added],
>
> focusing on Television and their extraordinary debut record."
>
>
>
> Why must we hear all the hoary cliches of the 'NYC punk scene' about Hell
and his razor blades,
> Hilly Kristal and
>
> early CBGB's, the single-chord, jack-hammer pace of Ramones' songs, 'Please
Kill Me' t-shirts,
> the cartoonish Dictators,
>
> etc., etc., once again ad nauseum.  It's all been done already by so many
other writers (and
> I'm someone who loved
>
> "From The Velvets To The Voidoids".)
>
>
>
> Forget the thorough research, how about some original, interesting analysis
concentrating on
> the 8 songs on the
>
> album M M.  (I'll  even settle for theories or conjectures on 'Torn
Curtain', or on why Lloyd
> obsessively chose
>
> the key he did on 'Elevation'... better yet ask Lloyd, himself, he'd be
happy to talk about
> keys for days ... or the
>
> influence on the song 'MM' of Elia Kazan's "Wild River"... its voiceless
scene with Montgomery
> Cliff and Lee
>
> Remick with the sound of the rain beating on the roof:  on  "I was listening
/ listening to the
> rain / I was hearing /
>
> hearing something else", or Verlaine's conscious artistic choice to sing all
the vocals in
> Pointillist style, or .....)
>
>
>
> Regarding:  "...and if I'm talking to a lunkhead who can't get *his*
[emphasis added] head
> around the idea that
>
> I'm talking about a more diverse type of music than, say, hardcore, then the
conversation's
> pointless anyway."
>
>
>
> If I had a dollar for every woman I was ever seriously interested in meeting
but who, when they
> later looked up
>
> the name Tom Verlaine or the band Television and read the usual "  ....
famed for his
> trailblazing work as the singer
>
> and guitarist for the seminal New York punk band Television blah , blah,
blah ....", then ended
> the 'conversation'
>
> with mw with something along the lines of "I hate that type of music", then
I'd be a wealthy
> man. [smile].
>
> Maybe they shouldn't be, but sadly and unfortunately first impressions are
very important with
> many people. That's
>
> why 'open-mindedness' is an important criteria for me when I meet a woman
(or a man) for the
> first time.
>
>
>
> RE:  "Anyway, I think Hell is a pretty big part of Television's story."
>
> I think his role is vastly overblown (as is Hell's influence in the NYC
scene back then, or as
> a writer/musician).
>
> I'll grant him the original "Destiny Street"; it's a work of art.
>
>
>
> RE: "Would Verlaine have ever started a band, much less Television, without
Richard Hell's
> involvement?"
>
> Using that logic is akin to saying Einstein's father should get part of the
credit for the
> 'Theory of Relativity',
>
> or that the Beatles never would have created "Rubber Soul" if Pete Best
hadn't been
>
> their original drummer (just kidding, Philip).
>
>
>
> Look .... if this Waterman guy wants to spend two say 2 chapters on how Hell
and Verlaine both
> loved the
>
> French Symbolists, how the two boyhood pals influenced each other's poetry,
writing, or even [a
> stretch] their
>
> music. I'm all for it.  But to regurgitate "the origins of the New York City
punk scene" is
> boring, and wastes
>
> valuable pages.  Remember, it's not suppose to be about "thorough research";
it's supposed to
> be an analysis
>
> of a single masterpiece, M M.
>
>
>
> I have the 331/3 by Hugo Wickken on my favorite Bowie album, "Low".  It's
only 138 pages; it's
> serious, but fun,
>
> and very well-written, and he doesn't waste any of the book revisiting
Bowie's earlier
> glam-rock history and
>
> the whole Ziggy and the Spiders from Mars nonsense.
>
>
>
> I would be much happier if 331/3 was being written not by someone from
academia with an
> interest/specialty in
>
> revisiting NYC history, but someone such as Ellen Willis or Robert Palmer or
Robert Christgau
> or Lisa Robinson
>
> or Greil Marcus or John Pareles, or *especially Richard Meltzer* [but no
Dave Marsh or the
> dull-as-dishwater
>
> Simon Frith!]), i.e., people who know music and know M M intimately.
>
>
>
> Speaking of intimately, with apologies to the few women on this List, what
it ultimately comes
> down to
>
> [and I'm half-serious here] in a crude, sort of NYC-punk-rock way, is that I
am still extremely
> pissed-off
>
> that I missed-out getting laid about 50 times because of the stranglehold
that the term 'punk'
> has had on
>
> Television these many years.
>
>
>
> Leo (the dirty old man)
>
>
>
> PS: "We are sorry that we are unable to take advance credit card orders for
out-of-stock or
> not-yet-published
>
> titles [331/3: M M] on this website. If you would like to place a credit
card backorder, please
> contact customer
>
> service at 1-800-561-7704"
>
>
>
> I just placed mine.
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