Re: Some Intial Comments / SRE: (TV) 33 1/3 book launch events and readings

[Jay <piazzasanmarco@yahoo.com>]

A few chapters in.  Well researched, well written, incisive, a few knew ideas and theories to the table.

Love how he goes right at the myth of the CBGB origin story

what you'd expect from an academic

hope it gets some positive press

--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net>
> Subject: Some Intial Comments / SRE: (TV) 33 1/3 book launch events and  readings
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 4:44 PM
> I haven't finished (I've been reading
> a lot of the chapters in reverse order), 
> but I have a couple of initial comments ....maybe some more
> substantial ones after Philip
> gives his (and other readers of the book although don't
> think there are actually many of us 
> who bothered to buy this book  maybe only 5 or 6 of
> us?).
> 
> If below I quote too many lines in Waterman's book without
> permission, he can either sue or
> consider 
> that my quotes might indirectly generate additional
> interest that results in more sales :> )
> 
> In addition to a number of typos which Robin mentioned, I
> found a couple of possibly egregious
> but not deadly errors.
> 
> On p. 180 during his analysis of the title song, 'Marquee
> Moon', Waterman writes about 
> a 'doubles' or 'doubling' motif that appears throughout the
> song, and at one point adds:  
> "{It could also derive from Verlaine's experience as an
> identical twin.)"
> 
> From my sources, including Ms Secret X, Tom Verlaine and
> his brother John were fraternal, 
> not identical twins  ... but I quibble
> 
> Also, in Waterman's analysis of 'Venus' on p. 169, he
> writes, ""One of the oldest songs in
> Television's 
> repertoire, 'Venus' existed in an acoustic version dating
> all the way back to Verlaine's
> ventures 
> into Greenwich Village folk clubs, **pre-Neon boys,
> pre-Reno Sweeney** ."  [emphasis added].
> 
> Unlike many of Waterman's other facts or claims, no source
> is provided for this statement.
> From all my readings 
> over the years, I have never come across this claim for
> 'Venus' before.  It seems to fly in the
> face of common sense 
> and Clinton Heylin's "From The Velvet's To The Voidoids".
> But who knows?  .
> 
> I thought Waterman's writing was very high quality stuff. A
> couple of examples:  
> 
> "The title track brings the sublime moment all [of] Side A
> has worked towards. .... 'Marquee
> Moon helps to clarify that 
> the antagonistic pairs running through all of side A's
> songs are figures of doubling.. Is there
> a coherent self behind these 
> songs?  Can we exist without reflection?  If the
> other songs to this point have all featured
> traveling companions, on this 
> one the singer journeys solo.  'Marquee Moon' is
> structured on a backward glance, 'I remember,'
> it opens as the rhythm 
> section carries us forward on a mechanical current. 
> The voice is a survivor's, someone who
> remains to tell the tale, 
> like Job or Melville's Ishmael.  Combined with the
> gothic setting, the glance back prepares us
> for the 
> devil-at-the--crossroads story to follow."  [Albeit
> it's possible Waterman borrowed the Robert
> Johnson idea from a 
> concise analysis of the song that a MM List Member once
> brilliantly made   (or maybe just great
> minds think alike?) 
> Can't remember which member.  but you know who you are
> ... take a bow.]
> 
> Or this: " 'Broadway looks so medieval':  Tim
> Mitchell  suggests Grace Church at Broadway
> between 10th and 11th 
> Streets as the setting invoked in this line, the clearest
> signal that the album's world is our
> own. But I've never biked 
> down Broadway at night, the Woolworth Building's lighted
> gothic spire looming at the
> bottom-most tip of Manhattan, 
> without thinking of this lyric. The song's geography has a
> downward sweep that responds with
> the repeated ideas of 
> fall/falling: in the the third verse the friends wander
> down Broadway, which after dark,
> especially amid the 
> nineteenth-century factories and warehouses of SoHo's
> Cast-iron District , seemed positively
> abandoned.  In the 
> distance, towers hulked: the new World Trade Center
> looming. The Woolworth, once the epitome of
> modernity, 
> seems dwarfed, hunchbacked and ancient."
> 
> Whew!  IMHO, that's damn good writing.  
> But maybe I'm simply finding too much kinship with
> Waterman's  " ... I've never biked down ....
> without thinking 
> of this lyric", as I too have 'locations' and
> 'experiences/sensations' [and I know those in the
> Richard Llyod camp 
> are gonna gag here] that when they occur are always
> accompanied by one of Verlaine's unusually
> fitting lyrics ....  
> to a degree like no other lyricist with the possible
> exception of Dylan
> 
> My criticism of his long interpretation of 'Venus' [I'm not
> typing it here!], is that Waterman
> pays shortshrift to 
> 'Venus' as a beautiful song about what it's like to *fall*
> in love.  Yeah sure, it's also got
> the 'dress up like cops' angle, 
> but that doesn't cancel out its heightened senses of
> 'falling'.   
>  
> Leo
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tv-owner@obbard.com
> [mailto:tv-owner@obbard.com]
> On 
> > Behalf Of Robin Dunn
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:55 AM
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Cc: Marquee Moon Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: (TV) 33 1/3 book launch events and
> readings
> > 
> > I also just finished, and really enjoyed the book (and
> a lot 
> > was new to me).  I'm interested in reading any
> discussion of 
> > it here.  I'd start by saying the part that most
> stuck with 
> > me was the idea of avoiding "known reference points"
> in 
> > making the album.  Some of you, who may be more
> familiar with 
> > Tom's interviews over the year, may have already known
> about 
> > this.  But it was a new way of looking at MM for
> me -- it 
> > explains a lot, and, I think, speaks to why the album
> seems 
> > pretty timeless and still so fresh.
> > 
> > Anyway, I thought the book was very well written, and
> very 
> > interesting (even though you would think I had had
> enough of 
> > TV after so many years on this list).    
> > 
> > After MM, I immediately started the 33 1/3 "Some
> Girls".  May 
> > seem unrelated, but actually is related in that it
> addresses 
> > the same era in NYC.  And, it is written by a
> colleage of 
> > Waterman's -- apparently they made the effort to
> address 
> > these two NY albums together.  Television gets
> referenced by 
> > page 3, with an extended quote from Lloyd.
> > 
> > One complaint -- where was the copy editor?  Both
> books have 
> > a number of typos (missing words in MM, wrong dates in
> SG) 
> > that could have been qickly caught and
> corrected.  To me, 
> > this really detracts from the imprint.  I haven't
> noticed 
> > this problem with 33 1/3 before now.  
> > 
> > Robin
> --------------
> To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
> To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com
> with message "unsubscribe tv"
--------------
To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"