Re: (TV) Sour Grapes / Alternate Ver of Television's Founding?

[Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com>]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 8:46 AM, Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net> wrote:

> From my source(s):
> " First the interview videos appear with a happy, relaxed band and then
> Richard posts uh this":
>
>
> http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loo4eh2lGW1qiy0z1o1_500.png
>
>
> http://i.imgur.com/KKhq3.png
>
>
> Didn't Richard he say in 2007 that the split was amicable?
>
> He sure seems bitter.
>

Yeah, this is awful ugly stuff. The worst is the bit where he's slagging
Tom's very earliest material off (his "three little songs" etc.) as if there
was nothing of value there to begin with.  Guess that makes someone a
dumbass for being such a very "faithful organ grinder" for 40 years.
 Actually, that claim of his has been absurd for a long time to begin
with... it's tough to claim faithful membership to a band he's quit at least
three times, and with whom he didn't play between 1978 and 1991, and
super-infrequently thereafter.  But sure, yeah, faithful undemanding
sideman, fine.


>
> And didn't the story go that Ork got Lloyd to see Tom, who was then
> 'managed' by Hell?


It seems like Richard's revisionist history is getting further and further
out there and self-contradictory. It's not always easy to parse what he's
claiming (perhaps because of his alleged mental health issues, dunno) but he
seems to be more and more often taking on the mantle of being THE guy behind
the legends of Television and CBGB etc. (whilst simultaneously denigrating
both, which is part of what makes it so hard to tell what POV he's pushing).


The problem is, while a lot of what he has to say about Tom is true-- tuning
fests, a lack of productivity, prickly personality, etc.-- it pushes things
too far to imply that Richard was the prime motivating force behind
Television.  Because Tom's solo albums exist, and to my mind all of them are
clearly extensions of the primary aesthetic of Television, which, I'm sorry,
IS Tom.  Richard could use this to his own credit, because he's so much more
versatile than Tom as a player, but apparently that won't do for him when he
can slag off Tom's entire body of work instead.  In any case, honestly,
Tom's first two solo LPs, and later Flash Light, are logical extensions of
Television's signature sound in every particular and are easily recognized
as such.  Tom's vision is (okay, maybe "was") much bigger than a few "little
songs" which never would have gone anywhere without Richard Lloyd.  In fact,
when thinking about people who've lit a fire under Tom's ass to get him to
do stuff, I think of Hell, Patti, and even, during the solo years, Fred
before I think of RL.

I don't think Tom gives nearly as big of a shit about Richard as Richard
wants him to, and that probably just pisses Richard off more.  From a fan's
perspective, Tom's disrespecting Richard by being too dismissive of his
contributions, and that bothers me, too, but who knows, maybe Tom and the
guys just can't deal with Richard's personality (there were rumblings of
such problems during RL's recent tour with Fred and Billy as his band) or
maybe Tom is just a cruel dick who enjoys winding Richard up.  That's maybe
the most frustrating part of these rants: I really tend to think Tom's
basically a dick, so it bugs me on some level to (A) find Richard acting
even dickier, and (B) kind of suspect that his doing so satisfies Tom's
baser instincts, too.  It also changes my perspective to see the Brazil
interviews with Billy and Fred sitting down with Tom and Jimmy, smiling
along to Tom's version of things, none of them keen to delve into the
Richard story... they just don't seem as broken up about the whole thing as
Richard.  Hey, maybe they're doing okay.

Now, I know I'm basing a lot of this on stuff I've read about these guys'
personalities, and that both Richard and Tom have been totally great guys
 to those who have met them in person, so who the hell am I to judge and why
should I care... sure, I get that.  Where this particular cart goes off the
rail for me, time and time again, is when Richard drags Billy and Fred into
it.  Nobody but fuckin' nobody has anything bad to say about those guys and
they never stir this pot at all, bless 'em.  In this most recent round of
acrimony, Richard started off by saying how great they were, and even paid
homage to Jimmy, but immediately declared "pity" on them for deciding to
continue playing with Tom.  Simultaneously he slagged off their newest
recorded work with Television.  That's just not the way you treat your
collaborators or respected fellow musicians.  RL was clearly out to serve
his own agenda (whatever it is), going so far as to suddenly elevate Richard
Hell's status in the band over Tom's and to trot out questionable stories
like "forty years ago Tom said Billy's drumming smelled like poopy jazz" in
a possible attempt to sway the rhythm section to his side (or something).
 Apparently he didn't score any points with that approach and now Billy,
Fred, and Jimmy alike are "brown-nosers" and hangers-on, doing the bidding
of the ever-manipulative Tom who is so egotistical that he... wait, isn't he
the guy who can't even be bothered to sing or write songs?  Something's
wrong with this picture.

And that's why Richard's ranting so completely reeks of high school bitchery
right now.  His basic thesis: Tom is bad.  He will say anything to support
this.  Some stuff that's true, some stuff that's distorted, some stuff of
questionable veracity designed to sway other people to his point of view.
 And when THAT doesn't work, he'll say something else... even if it *totally
contradicts his previous points*.  Tom is a greedy control freak / Tom is
too lazy to ever do anything without someone prodding him to do it.  Tom is
basically talentless / Tom was worth my undying loyalty for forty years.
 Fred and Billy deserve better / Fred and Billy are spineless and can rot in
hell.  He can't have it all three or four ways, and the only thing uniting
all this self-contradictory rhetoric is that it's transparently anti-Tom.

I can't stand that kind of self-serving disingenuousnes-- perhaps because I
was married to someone just like that for far too long and still have to
deal with that kind of infuriating double talk in court from time to time
with regards to my kids-- and above all, I can't see what RL even THINKS he
has to gain by demeaning most of his legacy in music and most of his
talented fellow musicians (when it serves his agenda).  The details in
Richard's stories just don't add up: he has his larger agenda, but if a
single detail comes up where he can "score points" against Tom, he'll pounce
on it, even if it runs completely counter to his overall thesis, not to
mention many of his own past statements.  People like Fred, Billy, Hell,
Jimmy, and whomever else become tools with which to score points, rather
than real people who played/play real roles in the story, and if one
portrayal of them doesn't catch on, Richard just changes to another one. If
a detail doesn't support the Richard-centric view of history, ignore it or
change it.  If it were fiction, you could fault RL for inconsistent
characterization.  Who is Terry Ork?  Richard Hell?  Bit players?  Prime
movers?  Opportunists?  Geniuses?  Depends on what portrayal makes Richard's
targets look bad.

All in the service of... what?  Who's this all for?  It would be hard to
argue that the set of "Richard Lloyd fans" is anything other than a subset
of "fans of Television" and probably has a massive crossover with "Tom
Verlaine fans".  So what does Richard now want us to do?  Realize the error
of our ways and renounce Television?  Appreciate the Television records but
with the proviso that Tom's contributions were minimal and tainted by greed,
and by all means never listen to Tom's solo work again?  I don't get it.  It
seems to me like most Television, Tom and Richard fans have always been
pretty realistic about the limitations, failings, and basic humanity of our
"heroes"; I know I had plenty of gripes about Tom's way of doing things
before Richard started ranting about him, and as far back as I can remember
on this list and elsewhere the common perception of Tom among fans has been
that he is his own worst enemy in many many ways.

We as a fan base know this stuff, but we continue to patronize the output of
these guys, Richard very much included, because they offer us something
musically that we cannot get elsewhere.  So I don't get what Richard's
trying to evangelize here.  When he tells me Tom's lazy and spends too much
time tuning, I already know that.  When he tells me Tom isn't a good
songwriter or the driving force behind Television, I don't believe him for a
second.  When he disses Billy and Fred, or just plain blows his stack about
his own importance as the center of the universe, he frankly pisses me off.
 Me, his primary audience... I mean, I do not know another SINGLE person in
"real life" besides myself who has purchased Richard Lloyd solo records.
 But right now Richard is so passionate in his need to belittle others and
aggrandize himself that he's risking losing MY patronage. Meanwhile, I have
yet to hear anyone give up on Tom because of the force of Richard's
arguments (correct me if I'm wrong, but those of you who have expressed a
lack of interest in TV4 seem to have been experiencing diminishing returns
and waning interest anyhow, and for musical reasons as opposed to problems
with the personalities and histories of the players).

Basically, Richard seems to be cutting of several of his noses at a time
every month or so to spite the face of his career and fanbase.  Make no
mistake, I'm very much in for the RFTT album or any Matthew Sweet-style
sidemanship (although didn't Richard bash Sweet as well?) but another record
of Hendrix covers?  I might just pass on that one, and I've never been
especially impressed with Richard's original songwriting.

Sorry for the long rant... apparent tirades beget tirades.  This has
obviously been bugging me for a long time and I figure there'll be hell to
pay, but I had to get it out.  Flame away, friends.
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