Re: More on TV & Smith/Smith's schtick / RE: (TV) Patti w/ Tom show suggestion

[robin dunn <rdunnrn@yahoo.com>]

i've been a lifelong patti smith fan, and *i* think she's often pretentious  -- has been from the beginning.  some of her free form stuff is just intolerable.  that said, she has also achieved a lot.  and, personality-wise, i don't think she is any less likeable (i'd say she's more likeable) than this list's dueling heroes, verlaine and lloyd.  it's all subjective...

i agree with phil that outside of horses (and maybe easter, and for me, wave) she has not made really solid albums.  the last album, a covers project, was just horrible.  i generally find some songs to love and other stuff that is just not much to listen to.  you could say the same about iggy, lou, and tom.

still, with all that criticism, i get more enjoyment from her music than i do from most others.  and i would also say that even on a bad night -- and she has them -- she is still a more interesting performer than most.  

growing up, i took a tremendous amount of inspiration from patti.  as she ages, i take inspiration in the fact that she continues to be herself -- gray hair, mustache, sagging skin and all.  as she said herself, "we worship the flaw, the mole on the belly of an exquisite whore".  she stands virtually alone in her generation as a woman in rock and roll, she made the way for many others, and i honor that, and admire it, and always will.  and she really did it by just being true to herself, not compromising.

i don't think men can generally appreciate what a boys club rock and roll has traditionally been, and how little room there has been for women.  patti challenged that, and she still challenges it when she goes out there and is successful being herself, rather than trying to be a commodity (the usual role of women in pop).  i think the boys club has changed significantly, at least in the indie universe, but to whatever extent it has, patti (with all her pretention) deserves mad props.  she's far from perfect, but i love her.

r







--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Glenn Cooper <glennwaynecooper@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Glenn Cooper <glennwaynecooper@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: More on TV & Smith/Smith's schtick / RE: (TV) Patti w/ Tom  show suggestion
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:51 PM
> As an aside: what does "pretentious"
> mean? How do we separate pretention
> from ambition? Was Dylan being pretentious when he made
> rock's first double
> album? Was Marquee Moon pretentious? Does one become
> pretentious as soon as
> one attempts to break any kind of new ground? What about
> Coltrane's
> more free-form explorations - pretentious?
> 
> I honestly don't know what it means when used in this
> context.
> 
> Glenn C.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I am not a huge Smith fan... aside from HORSES, and
> maybe EASTER every few
> > years, there's no album of hers I generally want to
> hear end-to-end... but
> > I
> > have to say that the one time I saw her live (on a
> double-bill with
> > Television
> > c. 2004), she was fantastic -- an electric performer
> with a strong backing
> > band. I don't need to buy her new albums (last one I
> got was GUNG HO,
> > which I
> > promptly got rid of) but I'd see her live again if the
> opportunity arose,
> > no
> > question.
> >
> > --Phil
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