Re: More on TV & Smith/Smith's schtick / RE: (TV) Patti w/ Tom show suggestion

[Russ <russvr@gmail.com>]

Thoroughly agree with Robin. It's no great sin to be pretentious....just a
great sin to be pretentious and stupid and wrong. Patti is none of those
things.
-Russ

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:01 AM, robin dunn <rdunnrn@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i've been a lifelong patti smith fan, and *i* think she's often
> pretentious  -- has been from the beginning.  some of her free form stuff
> is just intolerable.  that said, she has also achieved a lot.  and,
> personality-wise, i don't think she is any less likeable (i'd say she's
> more likeable) than this list's dueling heroes, verlaine and lloyd.  it's
> all subjective...
>
> i agree with phil that outside of horses (and maybe easter, and for me,
> wave) she has not made really solid albums.  the last album, a covers
> project, was just horrible.  i generally find some songs to love and other
> stuff that is just not much to listen to.  you could say the same about
> iggy, lou, and tom.
>
> still, with all that criticism, i get more enjoyment from her music than i
> do from most others.  and i would also say that even on a bad night -- and
> she has them -- she is still a more interesting performer than most.
>
> growing up, i took a tremendous amount of inspiration from patti.  as she
> ages, i take inspiration in the fact that she continues to be herself --
> gray hair, mustache, sagging skin and all.  as she said herself, "we
> worship the flaw, the mole on the belly of an exquisite whore".  she stands
> virtually alone in her generation as a woman in rock and roll, she made the
> way for many others, and i honor that, and admire it, and always will.  and
> she really did it by just being true to herself, not compromising.
>
> i don't think men can generally appreciate what a boys club rock and roll
> has traditionally been, and how little room there has been for women.
>  patti challenged that, and she still challenges it when she goes out there
> and is successful being herself, rather than trying to be a commodity (the
> usual role of women in pop).  i think the boys club has changed
> significantly, at least in the indie universe, but to whatever extent it
> has, patti (with all her pretention) deserves mad props.  she's far from
> perfect, but i love her.
>
> r
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/28/11, Glenn Cooper <glennwaynecooper@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Glenn Cooper <glennwaynecooper@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: More on TV & Smith/Smith's schtick / RE: (TV) Patti w/ Tom
>  show suggestion
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:51 PM
> > As an aside: what does "pretentious"
> > mean? How do we separate pretention
> > from ambition? Was Dylan being pretentious when he made
> > rock's first double
> > album? Was Marquee Moon pretentious? Does one become
> > pretentious as soon as
> > one attempts to break any kind of new ground? What about
> > Coltrane's
> > more free-form explorations - pretentious?
> >
> > I honestly don't know what it means when used in this
> > context.
> >
> > Glenn C.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I am not a huge Smith fan... aside from HORSES, and
> > maybe EASTER every few
> > > years, there's no album of hers I generally want to
> > hear end-to-end... but
> > > I
> > > have to say that the one time I saw her live (on a
> > double-bill with
> > > Television
> > > c. 2004), she was fantastic -- an electric performer
> > with a strong backing
> > > band. I don't need to buy her new albums (last one I
> > got was GUNG HO,
> > > which I
> > > promptly got rid of) but I'd see her live again if the
> > opportunity arose,
> > > no
> > > question.
> > >
> > > --Phil
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