Re: Hell & Date of When Eno Sessions Occurred / RE: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on writing credits

[Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca>]

 Re. the Feb.- March '75 approx. dates ( not '74) for the

Eno demos recording, good sleuthing work, & piecing together of evidence on
your part, Leo. Sounds like you "proved it, just the facts"!

--- On Mon, 7/16/12, Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Leo Casey <LeoCasey@comcast.net>
Subject: Hell & Date of When Eno Sessions Occurred / RE: (TV) 'Don't  Die' +
Hell quotes on writing credits
To: tv@obbard.com
Received: Monday, July 16, 2012, 1:13 PM

There's a couple of interesting tid-bits in the TRAX Hell interview referred
to by Deb (& found by Bob Beatty
http://www.trakmarx.com/2003_05/050_hell.htm ) I have been harping about
this for years:

Namely, that despite many (even some people on this List) claiming that the
Eno Sessions ("Double Exposure" boot) were recorded in December 1974, they
were not.  Hell saysd in the Interv. Segment below that those Eno Sessions
were recorded about a month before he left Television.  Hell's last show
with Television was at the Hippodrome, NYC on March 9, 1975.  Television did
not play another gig after that until CBGB, March 28 - 30 [potentially
allowing time for Fred Smith to rehearse with Television after leaving
Blondie].

Thunders and Jerry Nolan invited Hell to join The Heartbreakers on April 7
or 8, 1975. Source:  Nina Antonia's book, "The New York Dolls:  Too Much Too
Soon". Ironically, as The NY Dolls were disintegrating after their
disasterous (both financially and personally) mid-March, 1975 Florida Tour,
David Johansen, after flying back from Florida to NYC, invited Hell to join
The Dolls [pp. 174-174 Antonia] before Hell was invited to join The
Heartbreakers,

So, Hell quit Television sometime between March 10 and April 4, 1975.
Then using Hell's quote from the Deb/Beatty/TRAX Interview:
RICHARD HELL: The Eno sessions happened maybe a month before I quit. I'd
already been more or less squeezed out. There's nothing of mine on that tape
but a lame version of Blank Generation.

That would make the Eno Sessions happening somewhere between February 10,
1975 - March 10, 1975, and NOT December 1974.

Leo


-----Original Message-----
From: tv-owner@obbard.com [mailto:tv-owner@obbard.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Beatty
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 AM
To: tv@obbard.com
Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' + Hell quotes on writing credits

Hey Deb:
On checking my oldB  "Shake" labelB  vinyl single/e.p. with The Neon Boys'B
"That's all I Know (Right Now)" & "Love Comes in Spurts", Phil's right in
his
recall of those songs being credited to "Verlaine-Hell". Those two Neon Boys
songs comprise one side. The other side isn't The Neon Boys, but is Richard
Hell & the Voidoids, with two songs, "Don't Die" (Hell-Julian), & "Time"
(Hell).

I bet some confusion may have stemmed from the e.p. having The Neon Boys on
one side, & Richard Hell & the Voidoids on the other, which might have led
to
the error in the listing you saw crediting "Don't Die" to The Neon Boys.

I found that Hell interview referred to by Deb I think where Hell where he
talks about how songs were co-written by he & Tom in The Neon Boys.
http://www.trakmarx.com/2003_05/050_hell.htm
HELL QUOTE: "...There were three [Neon Boys] songs that I sang and three
songs
that Tom sang. Tom
wrote the instrumental music to all of it and I wrote the
words and the
singing to the songs I sang. I was just starting to learn
music. I
played the bass on the songs but it was all rudimentary patterns.
Basically Tom showed me what to play. We didnbt want all that time to be
completely wasted so we recorded the six songs and my three songs are
whatbs come out under the name Neon Boys. Tom wouldnbt allow the songs
he
sang to come out and he has never released them. I donbt know what
his
feelings are now, but he clearly hasnbt wanted to put out the ones
that he
wrote. He agreed to do that little Shake single which eventually
 got
re-released. The first version on Shake just had two songs, bThatbs
 All I
Knowb and the early version of bLove Comes In Spurtsb, which has
nothing in common with the Voidoidsb version, except the title.
Different
music, different words. And then when I released it with
Overground [records]
I added the third song, bHigh Heeled Wheelsb. And
that was the whole
history of the Neon Boys."

- I first read the above Hell interview years ago, but realized just today
my
recall was faulty re. what Hell said re. co-writing with Tom, 'cause my
foggy
memory was of Hell saying
Television songs he sang were all co-written with Tom, with Tom writing all
the instrumental music. It may be a possibility Hell's Television songs were
all co-written with Tom the same way as the Neon Boys ones were, but that's
not what Hell says here, as he only talks about co-writing Neon Boys songs.
For a long while, based on my errant memory of the above Hell quote, I
assumed
since "Blank Generation" was a song Hell sang in Television, that Tom likely
wrote the song's music but was not credited as co-writer on the Voidoids
album.

There's a late '70s Tom interview I think Deb refers to (part of that
articles
collection I earlier posted a link to in this forum:
http://www.4shared.com/zip/yNdZURDR/tom_verlaine_television_etc_ar.html )
where Tom does accuse Hell of essentially stealing his music & using it on
the
Blank Generation album. As I recall, Tom said when he listened to that first
Voidoids album he heard a bunch of Neon Boys music on it he'd come up with,
although I don't think he mentioned Hell "thefts" of Television material
specifically, just Neon Boys music.


--- On Sun, 7/15/12, postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
To: tv@obbard.com
Received: Sunday, July 15, 2012, 8:17 PM

Yeah, I'd appreciate you checking the credits.B  But I agree about there
prob
being a lot of 'looseness' back then.B  And if Tom wasn't worried about
it...
B
Would you know who is credited w/ writing most of the Voidoids songs?B B B

If I run across that interview I talked about I'll post it here.

Thanks!



--- On Sun, 7/15/12, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
> To: "tv@obbard.com" <tv@obbard.com>
> Date: Sunday, July 15, 2012, 2:19 PM
> I'll have to check the credits when I
> am home, but I believe the 3 release
> Neon Boys tracks (all sung by Hell) are credited lyrics to
> Hell, music to
> Hell/Verlaine, but I could be wrong.
>
> There is a lot of looseness in credits
> back then; if Verlaine really did co-write the music for
> "High Heeled Wheels",
> then he deserved a credit for "You Gotta Lose" that I am
> sure he does not get.
> And who can forget how many tracks the Heartbreakers
> "borrowed" from Hell once
> he left, or added their names to the credits? "Chinese
> Rocks" had his name
> stripped from the credits, "Love Comes in Spurts" was given
> new lyrics to
> become "One Track Mind", etc...
>
> --Phil
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: postitnote <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Sent: Sunday,
> July 15, 2012 2:11 AM
> Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't Die' question?
>B
> Okay, thanks.
> I've got that cleared up now.
>
> On, the Neon Boys though, even though some
> songs are Richard Hell songs.B  wasn't all of the music
> written by Tom though?
> I mean, Richard sings some of the songs where the 'lyrics'
> are his.B
>
> I also
> remember an interview w/ Tom and I believe it was British
> (an early one) and
> he was asked about Hell's music outside of Television/Neon
> Boys.B  Tom said
> sthg like Hell borrowed some of his music, as he could hear
> it in some of the
> songs.B  Tom said that he didn't really mind
> though.B  I'm sorry that I don't
> remember which interview that was as I read that awhile back
> and my memory
> sucks.
>
> I'm not putting down Richard as he's def a talented guy.
>
> Is this
> valid or am I off-base?
>
> --- On Sat, 7/14/12, Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Phil Obbard <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: (TV) 'Don't
> Die' question?
> > To: "tv@obbard.com"
> <tv@obbard.com>
> > Date: Saturday, July
> 14, 2012, 5:36 PM
> > It's a Voidoids demo v. 1979. It
> > appears, along with a
> similar demo of "Time",
> > on the same release from Shake (and later
> Overground) that
> > gave us the only
> > Neon Boys material we've heard to date.
> >
> > So "Time" and "Don't Die" have
> > nothing do to with Television, other
> than being Richard Hell
> > solo material.
> > More info on Keith's
> > site:
> http://www.thewonder.co.uk/facts/bandrels.htm#Singles
> >
> >
> > --Phil
> >
> ________________________________
> >B  From: postitnote
> <postitnote@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: tv@obbard.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 14,
> 2012 8:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: (TV)
> > 'Don't Die' question?
> >B
> > I wonder if
> anyone could clear this up for me?B  There
> > is the song attributed to the Neon
> Boys called 'Don't Die'
> > (great song).B
> >
> > I
> > have this song listed as a
> Neon Boys song but I noticed in
> > some comments that
> > people are saying that
> this recording is actually a demo
> > played by Richard
> > Hell and the Voidoids
> for Sire Records.B  I still will
> > presume that it was
> > actually written by
> Tom and the lyrics were done by Hell
> > (they made a great
> > team).B  But so the
> recording is actually Richard and
> > the Voidoids playing it,
> > instead of the
> Neon Boys?B  Is that true?
> > --------------
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