Re: Re. (TV) Television

[Emilie <emilie.t.hsu@gmail.com>]

Happy new year, everyone! Regardless of whether you are team Tom or team
Richard, we are all team Television (I think?).
Personally, I think Tom and Richard just didn't get along, and Tom singled
out Richard for extra abuse while Tom may be totally decent and gracious to
everyone else - it seems to me that he is almost too nice to Jimmy (but
that's just my interpretation based on their interaction on stage). I can
only speculate that it is because Tom's and Richard's styles of playing are
so similar that they really cannot play together (for any extended period
of time), like matter meeting anti-matter.

I would love to see Richard play more. I kept telling everyone I know how
great Richard is, but without Richard getting out there and playing more
electric guitar, nobody I know believes me (so Richard, if you are reading
this, we want to hear you play!).


On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 8:26 PM, Bob Beatty <bobjb2002@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Good news, Dennis is staying with the List!
> [something's wrong with email to the list here today. My own posts today ar
> en't showing up in my Inbox, but other people must be receiving them as Den
> nis saw one, & I got his reply okay. And I seem to be receiving other peopl
> e's posts today okay - just not my own, for some odd reason].Happy New Year
> , all!
>       From: Dennis D <dend@nyc.rr.com>
>  To: tv@obbard.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 3:57 PM
>  Subject: Re: Re. (TV) Television
>
> Thanks Bob, even though I did unsubscribe it didn't seem to take and I will
>
> take that as a sign I should stay! :)
>
>
> [wanting to weigh in on this "controversy,"  I earlier tried to send t
> his as a reply but it never showed up in my Inbox, so here's attempt #2. ]:
> Jay saying "Days" is the most influential Television song ever does seem an
> extravagant claim.Jay's only "evidence" he cites for this belief seems to
> be he thinks REM's early sound is reminiscent of "Days."
> A more reliable measure of influence might be to see what songs Television-
> admiring bands choose to cover. So, I checked out the fine covers collectio
> n Keith kindly assembled. Of that collection, it looks like LJJ gets the mo
> st cover treatments (5,) with MM, the one Leif suggests, a close second wit
> h 4. No other Television song has more than two covers there. And the two s
> ongs Lloyd is co-credited with writing, "Days", & "Guiding Light" only get
> one cover each. Also, my ears hear echoes of the song Marquee Moon specific
> ally in many different Sonic Youth songs.
> "Days" may be my own fave song off Adventure 'cause I find it so uplifting
> musically, lyrically, & vocally, which means Tom too has a lot to do with m
> aking it a memorable song. But that doesn't mean it's the most influential
> song, generally. There's an interview quote from Lloyd where he says the mu
> sical idea for "Days" began with Tom asking Richard if he could play Mr. Ta
> mborine Man in reverse (no doubt The Byrds' electric version). Maybe "Days"
> is Tom's & Richard's answer to Dylan's/Byrd's Mr. Tamborine man.
> I'm in the camp preferring Lloyd's guitar playing to Ripp's. And I agree wi
> th Jay that Lloyd playing 1880 or So live (of which there's a fine Jools Ho
> lland TV version on yt), as but one example, compared to Ripp playing the s
> ame song, leaves Ripp sounding second best, to these ears. But if the curre
> nt lineup of the band came to my town I wouldn't hesitate to go see them. A
> Lloyd-less Television is still, surely, much  better than no Televisi
> on at all.  Let's not forget Lloyd himself is on record as praising Ri
> pp's abilities to play Loyd's guitar parts.
> Jay seems to imply he also thinks Lloyd has a genius for composition which
> Tom suppressed. But Lloyd's had every opportunity in his solo career to com
> pose & record what ever he wants to. If he has song writing genius, as Jay
> suggests, he's had lots of opportunity to demonstrate it, unhindered by Tom
> .
> If people who've known Tom for decades, such as Dennis, Fred, Billy, Ripp,
> & Patti Smith  all seem to have gotten along with him well through the
> years, it doesn't sound like Tom can be quite as unpleasant a person as Ja
> y believes. I don't doubt there's some truth to assessments by Hell, Lloyd,
> & others that Tom has controlling, penny pinching, self-centered, etc. asp
> ects to him - just as LOTS of other artists, & people in general, have. But
> to therefore summarize Tom's personality as "douchebag," as Jay (who proba
> bly doesn't even know Tom) seems to do is excessive. It doesn't seem an app
> ropriate comment from a supposed fan in a Television fan forum. Sounds trol
> l-ish, actually. Dennis, don't let Jay drive you away!
> I like Lloyd (& his 13-part interview on youtube is excellent) but he seems
> to have his unpleasant sides, just as Tom does, although his bipolar disor
> der no doubt contributes some to that. For instance, here's Hell (from his
> autobiog.) talking about Lloyd:
> QUOTE:  "But once another guitar player was added the power shifted to
> Verlaine and he liked that. Lloyd was a stray dog following Verlaine
> for his chance. He was a smart enough guitar player to recognize his d
> ependence on Tom. Tom created all the guitar parts. Lloyd was a sycoph
> ant who'd throw a tantrum and whine and pout up to the point where there mi
> ght really be a crisis and then revert to his default submission to Tom."
> One reason Lloyd said he quit the band was 'cause Tom didn't want to work/t
> our much..But judging by the amount of touring the band's doing now, one wo
> nders if Tom's problem with touring before wasn't so much wanting to avoid
> the road but maybe wanting to avoid being on the road much with Richard Llo
> yd! Presumably, Tom gets along better with the current lineup of band membe
> rs than he did with Lloyd. Sadly, if Lloyd was still in the band, Televisio
> n shows might be much fewer & farther between!
> I doubt Television ever could ever have attained semi-mass success. Sometim
> es talent & commercial success go together. But large talent doesn't always
> translate into huge popularity. Tom's singing voice & the band's sound was
> perhaps destined, no matter what they did, for influential, & legendary, s
> tatus, not mass appeal. -Bob
>
> --------------
> To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
> To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"
>
>
>
> --------------
> To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
> To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"
>
>
>
> --------------
> To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
> To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"
>
>

--------------
To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"