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Re: Re. (TV) Television



My post from this morning didn't show up in my emails, but people did seem to get it.
Strange.

Glenn


On 1/01/2015 12:26 PM, Bob Beatty wrote:
Good news, Dennis is staying with the List!
[something's wrong with email to the list here today. My own posts today ar
en't showing up in my Inbox, but other people must be receiving them as Den
nis saw one, & I got his reply okay. And I seem to be receiving other peopl
e's posts today okay - just not my own, for some odd reason].Happy New Year
, all!
       From: Dennis D <dend@nyc.rr.com>
  To: tv@obbard.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: Re. (TV) Television
Thanks Bob, even though I did unsubscribe it didn't seem to take and I will take that as a sign I should stay! :)


[wanting to weigh in on this "controversy,"  I earlier tried to send t
his as a reply but it never showed up in my Inbox, so here's attempt #2. ]:
Jay saying "Days" is the most influential Television song ever does seem an
extravagant claim.Jay's only "evidence" he cites for this belief seems to
be he thinks REM's early sound is reminiscent of "Days."
A more reliable measure of influence might be to see what songs Television-
admiring bands choose to cover. So, I checked out the fine covers collectio
n Keith kindly assembled. Of that collection, it looks like LJJ gets the mo
st cover treatments (5,) with MM, the one Leif suggests, a close second wit
h 4. No other Television song has more than two covers there. And the two s
ongs Lloyd is co-credited with writing, "Days", & "Guiding Light" only get
one cover each. Also, my ears hear echoes of the song Marquee Moon specific
ally in many different Sonic Youth songs.
"Days" may be my own fave song off Adventure 'cause I find it so uplifting
musically, lyrically, & vocally, which means Tom too has a lot to do with m
aking it a memorable song. But that doesn't mean it's the most influential
song, generally. There's an interview quote from Lloyd where he says the mu
sical idea for "Days" began with Tom asking Richard if he could play Mr. Ta
mborine Man in reverse (no doubt The Byrds' electric version). Maybe "Days"
is Tom's & Richard's answer to Dylan's/Byrd's Mr. Tamborine man.
I'm in the camp preferring Lloyd's guitar playing to Ripp's. And I agree wi
th Jay that Lloyd playing 1880 or So live (of which there's a fine Jools Ho
lland TV version on yt), as but one example, compared to Ripp playing the s
ame song, leaves Ripp sounding second best, to these ears. But if the curre
nt lineup of the band came to my town I wouldn't hesitate to go see them. A
Lloyd-less Television is still, surely, much  better than no Televisi
on at all.  Let's not forget Lloyd himself is on record as praising Ri
pp's abilities to play Loyd's guitar parts.
Jay seems to imply he also thinks Lloyd has a genius for composition which
Tom suppressed. But Lloyd's had every opportunity in his solo career to com
pose & record what ever he wants to. If he has song writing genius, as Jay
suggests, he's had lots of opportunity to demonstrate it, unhindered by Tom
.
If people who've known Tom for decades, such as Dennis, Fred, Billy, Ripp,
& Patti Smith  all seem to have gotten along with him well through the
years, it doesn't sound like Tom can be quite as unpleasant a person as Ja
y believes. I don't doubt there's some truth to assessments by Hell, Lloyd,
& others that Tom has controlling, penny pinching, self-centered, etc. asp
ects to him - just as LOTS of other artists, & people in general, have. But
to therefore summarize Tom's personality as "douchebag," as Jay (who proba
bly doesn't even know Tom) seems to do is excessive. It doesn't seem an app
ropriate comment from a supposed fan in a Television fan forum. Sounds trol
l-ish, actually. Dennis, don't let Jay drive you away!
I like Lloyd (& his 13-part interview on youtube is excellent) but he seems
to have his unpleasant sides, just as Tom does, although his bipolar disor
der no doubt contributes some to that. For instance, here's Hell (from his
autobiog.) talking about Lloyd:
QUOTE:  "But once another guitar player was added the power shifted to
Verlaine and he liked that. Lloyd was a stray dog following Verlaine
for his chance. He was a smart enough guitar player to recognize his d
ependence on Tom. Tom created all the guitar parts. Lloyd was a sycoph
ant who'd throw a tantrum and whine and pout up to the point where there mi
ght really be a crisis and then revert to his default submission to Tom."
One reason Lloyd said he quit the band was 'cause Tom didn't want to work/t
our much..But judging by the amount of touring the band's doing now, one wo
nders if Tom's problem with touring before wasn't so much wanting to avoid
the road but maybe wanting to avoid being on the road much with Richard Llo
yd! Presumably, Tom gets along better with the current lineup of band membe
rs than he did with Lloyd. Sadly, if Lloyd was still in the band, Televisio
n shows might be much fewer & farther between!
I doubt Television ever could ever have attained semi-mass success. Sometim
es talent & commercial success go together. But large talent doesn't always
translate into huge popularity. Tom's singing voice & the band's sound was
perhaps destined, no matter what they did, for influential, & legendary, s
tatus, not mass appeal. -Bob

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