Re: (TV) Amazon.com

["Philip P. Obbard" <pobbard@yahoo.com>]

I'm don't agree with everyone's anti-Amazon comments. I don't think we're
treating this fairly. Amazon seems to be the victim of a double-standard (a
few, actually):

First, Amazon isn't that cheap - not anymore. Like buy.com and other big
internet retailers, prices have raised noticeably in an effort to lessen the
red in their budget. When I lived in Boston, I could find almost any CD at
Newbury Comics - hardly a huge chain - for less than Amazon. In NYC, before I
buy anything at Amazon, I inevitably check 3-5 of my favorite CD stores in the
city (and, often, Virgin Megastore and Tower, neither of which are
substantively cheaper than Amazon). 

Second, Amazon isn't on every streetcorner, which is a major disadvantage for
them, and keeps lots of people away (especially that 30% of the US without
Internet access, not to mention other parts of the world, Amazon.uk, etc). I
would argue that Starbucks or Barnes & Nobles, with concrete buildings
seemingly  'reproducing' every 2 weeks, is a much bigger threat to mom-n-pop
stores than Amazon. BN.com alone is a MUCH bigger threat, because they can use
their stores to absorb losses from their online service for years and years to
come - a source of revenue Amazon will never have. BN.com has *also* prevented
its employees from unionizing. Yet I don't hear anyone bashing BN (except my
girlfriend, who works for them), or rallying against them in Seattle.  Instead,
I see internet petitions against Amazon! It's like missing the forest for the
trees.

Third, if you live in America, it's worth noting that large parts of this
country survived on mail order - a practice essentially no different than using
the Internet (but perhaps less efficient) - for decades. Every Christmas, I
made my wishlist by circling things in the Sears catalog. For people living in
less populated parts of the country, the Sears catalog was the only way to get
major consumer appliances. Did Sears crush all the mom-n-pop stores? Hardly -
Sears has narrowly avoided bankruptcy in this past decade. (As my friend used
to say about his own company, "I'm afraid we're going to turn into Sears -
doing lots of things, but not doing any of them well.") When I was in college,
in a desolate city where the 'hip' record shop was Sam Goody (I kid you not -
they special ordered the Otis Blackwell tribute for me in 1994, and I bought
ADVENTURE there, too) whenever I wanted a few CDs, I would place an order with
Noteworthy, a mail order house in NH. Why? They were cheap, and they had a huge
inventory. Was I giving in to "globalization"? Was I ripping off Sam Goody by
not paying more and waiting longer to special order through them? Should I have
waited for break and gone home to Boston and looked for CDs then (which I
inevitably did, anyhow - spending thousands on CDs all the while)?

The internet's biggest toll hasn't been on mom-n-pop stores (my budget at music
stores has only increased since Amazon.com came along), but on traditional mail
order - and I would argue, that 'electronic' mail order is infinitely superior
to old-fashioned mail order. Moreover, most internet retailers haven't even
been that successful. They can't last forever. I don't doubt that a lot of
music retailers are struggling, and I *definitely* don't want to make light of
their financial struggle, but (1) a lot were struggling before Amazon, and (2)
major chains like Tower, Virgin, HMV, Strawberries, Sam Goody, etc. would be
threatening mom-n-pop stores directly with or without Amazon.

--Philip

P.S. As an aside... I find the Seattle protests very odd. They were more
virulent, and got more attention, than protests now over the US election. It's
a sign of America's complacency and growing isolationism that we regard
globalization a threat, but most Americans (70%+ !) are apathetic over who runs
one branch of the federal gov't. It's also an issue that finds proponents on
both sides of the political spectrum. Globalization wasn't a threat in 1945,
when we become the top industrial manufacturer in the world (and US
corporations like GM, Gerber, General Foods, etc. were, in essence,
multinationals), and it isn't a threat now, when our rank is the same. The only
people globalization threaten are those that have ALWAYS suffered at the hands
of industry, no matter whether it was run by nationals or multinationals - the
poor, the unemployed, the non-unionized, the under-educated. Those are the
people we should be protesting for - the grape farmers, coal miners, etc. 

 




--- Michael <michael@recordsnyc.com> wrote:
>     I don't get it with Amazon.com. They've been killing all of the small
> businesses(myself included) to the point of either going out of business of
> filing bankruptcy. This was their plan was it not, to lose or not make money
> the first five years and just steal all the customers that it could from
> every hard working independent American shop and just have one massive one
> line mail order service? Fortunately for me I still sell alot of vinyl and
> assorted ephemera so I've manage to keep my head just above water, barely.
> Now they want to screw over their employees. Why doesn't someone blow up
> Amazon's web site? I cannot tell you how they've spoiled the buyer by
> sending out orders in 24 hours. For stores like mine it's not possible to
> have that kind of turn around time. So when people do not have their
> merchandise within 48 to 72 hours they want to know where it is. I usually
> tell people if you want that kind of service then perhaps you should try to
> find this item at Amazon. As crass as this may sound I just cannot compete
> with that sort of service or even their prices. Case in point, when
> Beefheart's "Grow Fins" set came out I paid $64.00 wholesale(not including
> shipping and COD fees). My web site had just gone up so I thought well
> rather than charge the usual 30 to 35% markup I'll sell then for $74.99 just
> to attract some kinda business. Then I find out that ol' Amazon's charging
> $67.00, $3 above the wholesale price. Accoring to Revenant, no one got a
> price break whether you order 1 set or 1,000 the price is the same. That's
> when I knew I had to do something different. There's just no way to compete
> with these guys. 
> 
> 
>         What I want to know is what are they going to do when they've wiped
> out the vast majority of on-line mom & pop shops selling CD's and books. Are
> they all of a sudden going to raise their prices to the suggested retail
> value of $17.99 or $18.99 when alot of the mom & pop shops were sticking to
> the old 30% markup rule? How are the people who've supported Amazon all this
> time going to feel when they find that they've been had? Now that all of the
> reasonable on-line shops are gone you're now at the mercy of Amazon.com Has
> anyone given this any thought? Amazon just can't go on losing money like
> this without the whole concept crashing down on them. I can tell you from
> the prices that I've seen that there's no way in hell that they're even
> making a small profit especially with their overhead. How much longer do we
> have to wait until the real Amazon.com emerges? Anyone have any idea when
> their 5 year losing streak is up?
> 
>     I strongly support the employess of Amazon in their fight to get union
> representation. Then they won't feel so expendable which is probably how
> they feel right now without the union.
> 
>     I'd be curious to hear comments regarding those who support/don't
> support Amazon.


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