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RE: (TV) Collector's Choice reissues - just got 'em / Desecration too strong a word?/ Ms Secret X:



Holy SMOKE, you're right. This is a different mix - and more.

I just started a digital comparison of "Grip of Love", between the original CD
and the remaster. 

1. The high-end on the remaster is vastly improved. There's much more treble
(and hiss, naturally) audible now. In fact, comparing to the original CD makes
me think the original was noise-reduced at some point, as it has almost no
ambient sound whatsoever. Verlaine's ennunciation is much clearer on the
remaster.

Overall, the remaster appears to have a wider dynamic range than the original.

But:

2. This is definitely a different mix, or they can do tricks with mastering
that I can't understand. For example, on my original CD, the lead guitar (the
screeching heard intermittently in the opening bars of the song) is very
definitely in the RIGHT channel. On the remaster, it's in the CENTER channel
(albeit very "wide", if that makes sense). Similarly, on the original, the
background vocals ("must be the grip of love") are equal in volume to
Verlaine's lead vocal; on the remaster, Verlaine's vocal is much stronger than
the background vocals.

MORE AMAZING! Backing up Leo's "alternate take" hypothesis: On the original,
right after the "buckle my belt" intro to the chorus, Verlaine first sings
"sure had me / in your hand" (right around 1:38). On the remaster, Verlaine
sings "sure got it / in your hand" at the same point (1:38). 

The guitar solo is VERY different - as Leo noted, the sound on the lead guitar
has been changed tremendously. I'm not sure whether the EQ'ing is different, or
whether it's a different solo entirely. I suspect the latter. The difference is
as pronounced as what you find between the LP and single versions of "Ain't
That Nothin'".

To my great disappointment, the 'ringing' guitar bit behind Verlaine's lead
vocal (during the chorus at the end of the guitar solo, starting at 2:20) is
completely absent on the remaster!!

During the "must be the grip of love" coda starting around 2:54, more changes
in the mix are apparent. On the original, Verlaine's vocal sounds
double-tracked (probably the same vocal track in both the right and left
channel, but I'm not sure how to describe this). On the remaster, his vocal is
dead center, and has considerably more echo on it. Again, the positioning of
the lead guitar is different, as it was at the beginning, with the original
having it in the right channel, and the remaster having it "wide" centered.  

Finally, the track runs about 0:02 longer on the remaster. 

I'm going to go through the rest of the disc now, but I'll spare you the
details unless I find something even more extraordinary. 

Here are my conclusions about "Grip Of Love": It's definitely a different mix
from the original CD (I don't have the original vinyl handy - it's still packed
- so I can't do that comparison right now). The backing tracks sound the same,
but the guitar solo is probably a different take, and the lead vocal is
definitely a different take (or perhaps some editing games took place in 1979
or 2002). 

I'll have to listen to the rest of the CD to be certain, but all of this makes
me wonder: What if the "hot mix" Verlaine mentioned in interviews c. 1979,
which Elektra made him replace with Bob Clearmountain's mix before release,
*wasn't* the so-called "Lost Mix" that started circulating a few years ago?
What if the "hot mix" Verlaine was talking about is the mix on the remaster? It
certainly sounds "hotter" than the original CD (notably the guitar solo) and
distortion is occasionally evident in the right channel - something I'm sure no
record company thinks sounds *good* for release (listen to the rhythm guitar in
the right channel during the guitar solo, and you'll see what I mean). 

Leo, any thoughts?

--Philip

(Also, as a sidenote, why can't record companies find the right mixes?? Bowie
fans are furious with the new 30th-anniversary ZIGGY 2CD, which seems to use
some alternate or damaged mix instead of the original. Rhino's reissue of Brian
Wilson's debut substituted at least two incorrect mixes in place of the
original - something they later corrected. But doesn't anyone doublecheck
anything anymore? And if they do this stuff intentionally, can't they let us
know?)

--- "Casey, Leo J" <CaseyL@VOLPE.DOT.GOV> wrote:
> We only listened once as it was too painful to attempt repeated listenings 
> in one night, but here's a couple of reactions from me.
> 
> 1) Several of the songs sound like completely different takes 
> (or at least several of the separate tracks on same song are different
> takes).
> 
> 2) Tom's guitar does *not* sound good to me.  It was almost like they 
> tried to 'expand' his guitar playing thru a DBX expander and they 
> overcompensated for the original compressed master tapes (I'm guessing).  
> 
> The guitar sounds to me like its missing treble and musical overtones, or
> both.  
> Also, to my ears the guitar volume level seems to rise and fall within
> fractions 
> of the same second; it's subtle, but I'm hearing after the fact "Expansion" 
> (a phenomenon called "breathing" which is caused by applying too much
> expansion to 
> compressed tapes). 
> 
> 3) Most if not all the wonderful deep organ on the song "Flash Lightning" 
> has been removed! This is (IMHO) a horreendous mistake (unlike what getting 
> rid of keyboards on Lloyd's solo would be). 
> 
> 4) At least two of the songs sound like they have had the drum parts
> completely re-recorded (for the worse).
> 
> 5) At least two or three of the songs have had the bass or bottom re-mixed 
> so low/bad that the songs now have no punch. 
> 
> 6) As bad as the mid-1990s Japanese (or German) cds were of this album, they 
> sound better to what we have here.
> 
> 7) My two friends begged me to play the vinyl and Jap cd version of 
> TV's 1st solo album after we listened to the Collector's Choice.


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