Re: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach

[Russ <russvr@gmail.com>]

Ditto on a Leo blog. Ditto on wife's aversion to Television -
primarily the Tom voice - she likes and appreciates the playing. I've
dragged her to one Television concert and one Lloyd concert. I think
she liked the Lloyd performance better.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Graham Urquhart
<gurquhart@madasafish.com> wrote:
> On 29/04/2011 17:23, Murray Ramone wrote:
>>
>> Umm, I hate to break it to you Leo, but maybe ..... just maybe ..... these
>> 50
>> women were using it as an excuse to protect your feelings ?
>
> Yes I'm not sure Marquee Moon is the album i'd be pumping out on an early
> date.  If its any consolation, my wife detests Television especially Tom's
> singing. (David Thomas and late Scott Walker are her other bete noirs).
>  Still almost 20 years together now so she has had to learn to live with it
> (and me with her bellydance music!).
>
>> Leo, you should write your own book ?
>
> And Leo you should seriously think about a book or even a blog with your
> insights. I would certainly like to read them.
>
> Graham
>
>
>>> From: LeoCasey@comcast.net
>>> To: tv@obbard.com
>>> Subject: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach
>>> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:05:14 -0400
>>>
>>> Regarding:
>>>
>>>> Now, with regards to the idea of writing a book on Marquee Moon itself,
>>>> you're dead right; there's going to be more need to refer to Ayler and
>>>> the
>>>> Stones or Dylan, for starters, than the Ramones, and more than a
>>>> chapter's
>>>> worth of band history detailing the Hell years is off-message overkill.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would say this description from this link
>>> (http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541
>>>
>>
>> <http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541&SubjectId=1381
>> &Subject2Id=1396>
>>>
>>> &SubjectId=1381&Subject2Id=1396 ) does not bode well at all: 331/3:
>>>
>>> "A **thoroughly researched** study of the **origins of the New York City
>>
>> punk scene** [emphasis
>>>
>>> added],
>>>
>>> focusing on Television and their extraordinary debut record."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why must we hear all the hoary cliches of the 'NYC punk scene' about Hell
>>
>> and his razor blades,
>>>
>>> Hilly Kristal and
>>>
>>> early CBGB's, the single-chord, jack-hammer pace of Ramones' songs,
>>> 'Please
>>
>> Kill Me' t-shirts,
>>>
>>> the cartoonish Dictators,
>>>
>>> etc., etc., once again ad nauseum.  It's all been done already by so many
>>
>> other writers (and
>>>
>>> I'm someone who loved
>>>
>>> "From The Velvets To The Voidoids".)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forget the thorough research, how about some original, interesting
>>> analysis
>>
>> concentrating on
>>>
>>> the 8 songs on the
>>>
>>> album M M.  (I'll  even settle for theories or conjectures on 'Torn
>>
>> Curtain', or on why Lloyd
>>>
>>> obsessively chose
>>>
>>> the key he did on 'Elevation'... better yet ask Lloyd, himself, he'd be
>>
>> happy to talk about
>>>
>>> keys for days ... or the
>>>
>>> influence on the song 'MM' of Elia Kazan's "Wild River"... its voiceless
>>
>> scene with Montgomery
>>>
>>> Cliff and Lee
>>>
>>> Remick with the sound of the rain beating on the roof:  on  "I was
>>> listening
>>
>> / listening to the
>>>
>>> rain / I was hearing /
>>>
>>> hearing something else", or Verlaine's conscious artistic choice to sing
>>> all
>>
>> the vocals in
>>>
>>> Pointillist style, or .....)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding:  "...and if I'm talking to a lunkhead who can't get *his*
>>
>> [emphasis added] head
>>>
>>> around the idea that
>>>
>>> I'm talking about a more diverse type of music than, say, hardcore, then
>>> the
>>
>> conversation's
>>>
>>> pointless anyway."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I had a dollar for every woman I was ever seriously interested in
>>> meeting
>>
>> but who, when they
>>>
>>> later looked up
>>>
>>> the name Tom Verlaine or the band Television and read the usual "  ....
>>
>> famed for his
>>>
>>> trailblazing work as the singer
>>>
>>> and guitarist for the seminal New York punk band Television blah , blah,
>>
>> blah ....", then ended
>>>
>>> the 'conversation'
>>>
>>> with mw with something along the lines of "I hate that type of music",
>>> then
>>
>> I'd be a wealthy
>>>
>>> man. [smile].
>>>
>>> Maybe they shouldn't be, but sadly and unfortunately first impressions
>>> are
>>
>> very important with
>>>
>>> many people. That's
>>>
>>> why 'open-mindedness' is an important criteria for me when I meet a woman
>>
>> (or a man) for the
>>>
>>> first time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RE:  "Anyway, I think Hell is a pretty big part of Television's story."
>>>
>>> I think his role is vastly overblown (as is Hell's influence in the NYC
>>
>> scene back then, or as
>>>
>>> a writer/musician).
>>>
>>> I'll grant him the original "Destiny Street"; it's a work of art.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RE: "Would Verlaine have ever started a band, much less Television,
>>> without
>>
>> Richard Hell's
>>>
>>> involvement?"
>>>
>>> Using that logic is akin to saying Einstein's father should get part of
>>> the
>>
>> credit for the
>>>
>>> 'Theory of Relativity',
>>>
>>> or that the Beatles never would have created "Rubber Soul" if Pete Best
>>
>> hadn't been
>>>
>>> their original drummer (just kidding, Philip).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look .... if this Waterman guy wants to spend two say 2 chapters on how
>>> Hell
>>
>> and Verlaine both
>>>
>>> loved the
>>>
>>> French Symbolists, how the two boyhood pals influenced each other's
>>> poetry,
>>
>> writing, or even [a
>>>
>>> stretch] their
>>>
>>> music. I'm all for it.  But to regurgitate "the origins of the New York
>>> City
>>
>> punk scene" is
>>>
>>> boring, and wastes
>>>
>>> valuable pages.  Remember, it's not suppose to be about "thorough
>>> research";
>>
>> it's supposed to
>>>
>>> be an analysis
>>>
>>> of a single masterpiece, M M.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have the 331/3 by Hugo Wickken on my favorite Bowie album, "Low".  It's
>>
>> only 138 pages; it's
>>>
>>> serious, but fun,
>>>
>>> and very well-written, and he doesn't waste any of the book revisiting
>>
>> Bowie's earlier
>>>
>>> glam-rock history and
>>>
>>> the whole Ziggy and the Spiders from Mars nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be much happier if 331/3 was being written not by someone from
>>
>> academia with an
>>>
>>> interest/specialty in
>>>
>>> revisiting NYC history, but someone such as Ellen Willis or Robert Palmer
>>> or
>>
>> Robert Christgau
>>>
>>> or Lisa Robinson
>>>
>>> or Greil Marcus or John Pareles, or *especially Richard Meltzer* [but no
>>
>> Dave Marsh or the
>>>
>>> dull-as-dishwater
>>>
>>> Simon Frith!]), i.e., people who know music and know M M intimately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of intimately, with apologies to the few women on this List,
>>> what
>>
>> it ultimately comes
>>>
>>> down to
>>>
>>> [and I'm half-serious here] in a crude, sort of NYC-punk-rock way, is
>>> that I
>>
>> am still extremely
>>>
>>> pissed-off
>>>
>>> that I missed-out getting laid about 50 times because of the stranglehold
>>
>> that the term 'punk'
>>>
>>> has had on
>>>
>>> Television these many years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Leo (the dirty old man)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS: "We are sorry that we are unable to take advance credit card orders
>>> for
>>
>> out-of-stock or
>>>
>>> not-yet-published
>>>
>>> titles [331/3: M M] on this website. If you would like to place a credit
>>
>> card backorder, please
>>>
>>> contact customer
>>>
>>> service at 1-800-561-7704"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just placed mine.
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