Re: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach

[Andrew <andrewmfc@aol.com>]

 It's funny. My wife was pretty much bored to tears each time I've dragged her
to see Television or T.V. solo.  But the night we saw Richard playing his
Hendrix set at Otto's Shrunken Head (with a totally wasted Gorge Wendt dancing
around in the back of the room) is just a legendary night for her.  The wonder
of tiki drinks, eh?






-----Original Message-----
From: Russ <russvr@gmail.com>
To: tv <tv@obbard.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 29, 2011 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach


Ditto on a Leo blog. Ditto on wife's aversion to Television -
primarily the Tom voice - she likes and appreciates the playing. I've
dragged her to one Television concert and one Lloyd concert. I think
she liked the Lloyd performance better.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Graham Urquhart
<gurquhart@madasafish.com> wrote:
> On 29/04/2011 17:23, Murray Ramone wrote:
>>
>> Umm, I hate to break it to you Leo, but maybe ..... just maybe ..... these
>> 50
>> women were using it as an excuse to protect your feelings ?
>
> Yes I'm not sure Marquee Moon is the album i'd be pumping out on an early
> date.  If its any consolation, my wife detests Television especially Tom's
> singing. (David Thomas and late Scott Walker are her other bete noirs).
>  Still almost 20 years together now so she has had to learn to live with it
> (and me with her bellydance music!).
>
>> Leo, you should write your own book ?
>
> And Leo you should seriously think about a book or even a blog with your
> insights. I would certainly like to read them.
>
> Graham
>
>
>>> From: LeoCasey@comcast.net
>>> To: tv@obbard.com
>>> Subject: (TV) Some Ominous News on Waterman's '33 1/3: MM' Approach
>>> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:05:14 -0400
>>>
>>> Regarding:
>>>
>>>> Now, with regards to the idea of writing a book on Marquee Moon itself,
>>>> you're dead right; there's going to be more need to refer to Ayler and
>>>> the
>>>> Stones or Dylan, for starters, than the Ramones, and more than a
>>>> chapter's
>>>> worth of band history detailing the Hell years is off-message overkill.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would say this description from this link
>>> (http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541
>>>
>>
>>
<http://www.continuumbooks.com/books/detail.aspx?BookId=136541&SubjectId=1381
>> &Subject2Id=1396>
>>>
>>> &SubjectId=1381&Subject2Id=1396 ) does not bode well at all: 331/3:
>>>
>>> "A **thoroughly researched** study of the **origins of the New York City
>>
>> punk scene** [emphasis
>>>
>>> added],
>>>
>>> focusing on Television and their extraordinary debut record."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why must we hear all the hoary cliches of the 'NYC punk scene' about Hell
>>
>> and his razor blades,
>>>
>>> Hilly Kristal and
>>>
>>> early CBGB's, the single-chord, jack-hammer pace of Ramones' songs,
>>> 'Please
>>
>> Kill Me' t-shirts,
>>>
>>> the cartoonish Dictators,
>>>
>>> etc., etc., once again ad nauseum.  It's all been done already by so many
>>
>> other writers (and
>>>
>>> I'm someone who loved
>>>
>>> "From The Velvets To The Voidoids".)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forget the thorough research, how about some original, interesting
>>> analysis
>>
>> concentrating on
>>>
>>> the 8 songs on the
>>>
>>> album M M.  (I'll  even settle for theories or conjectures on 'Torn
>>
>> Curtain', or on why Lloyd
>>>
>>> obsessively chose
>>>
>>> the key he did on 'Elevation'... better yet ask Lloyd, himself, he'd be
>>
>> happy to talk about
>>>
>>> keys for days ... or the
>>>
>>> influence on the song 'MM' of Elia Kazan's "Wild River"... its voiceless
>>
>> scene with Montgomery
>>>
>>> Cliff and Lee
>>>
>>> Remick with the sound of the rain beating on the roof:  on  "I was
>>> listening
>>
>> / listening to the
>>>
>>> rain / I was hearing /
>>>
>>> hearing something else", or Verlaine's conscious artistic choice to sing
>>> all
>>
>> the vocals in
>>>
>>> Pointillist style, or .....)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding:  "...and if I'm talking to a lunkhead who can't get *his*
>>
>> [emphasis added] head
>>>
>>> around the idea that
>>>
>>> I'm talking about a more diverse type of music than, say, hardcore, then
>>> the
>>
>> conversation's
>>>
>>> pointless anyway."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I had a dollar for every woman I was ever seriously interested in
>>> meeting
>>
>> but who, when they
>>>
>>> later looked up
>>>
>>> the name Tom Verlaine or the band Television and read the usual "  ....
>>
>> famed for his
>>>
>>> trailblazing work as the singer
>>>
>>> and guitarist for the seminal New York punk band Television blah , blah,
>>
>> blah ....", then ended
>>>
>>> the 'conversation'
>>>
>>> with mw with something along the lines of "I hate that type of music",
>>> then
>>
>> I'd be a wealthy
>>>
>>> man. [smile].
>>>
>>> Maybe they shouldn't be, but sadly and unfortunately first impressions
>>> are
>>
>> very important with
>>>
>>> many people. That's
>>>
>>> why 'open-mindedness' is an important criteria for me when I meet a woman
>>
>> (or a man) for the
>>>
>>> first time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RE:  "Anyway, I think Hell is a pretty big part of Television's story."
>>>
>>> I think his role is vastly overblown (as is Hell's influence in the NYC
>>
>> scene back then, or as
>>>
>>> a writer/musician).
>>>
>>> I'll grant him the original "Destiny Street"; it's a work of art.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RE: "Would Verlaine have ever started a band, much less Television,
>>> without
>>
>> Richard Hell's
>>>
>>> involvement?"
>>>
>>> Using that logic is akin to saying Einstein's father should get part of
>>> the
>>
>> credit for the
>>>
>>> 'Theory of Relativity',
>>>
>>> or that the Beatles never would have created "Rubber Soul" if Pete Best
>>
>> hadn't been
>>>
>>> their original drummer (just kidding, Philip).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look .... if this Waterman guy wants to spend two say 2 chapters on how
>>> Hell
>>
>> and Verlaine both
>>>
>>> loved the
>>>
>>> French Symbolists, how the two boyhood pals influenced each other's
>>> poetry,
>>
>> writing, or even [a
>>>
>>> stretch] their
>>>
>>> music. I'm all for it.  But to regurgitate "the origins of the New York
>>> City
>>
>> punk scene" is
>>>
>>> boring, and wastes
>>>
>>> valuable pages.  Remember, it's not suppose to be about "thorough
>>> research";
>>
>> it's supposed to
>>>
>>> be an analysis
>>>
>>> of a single masterpiece, M M.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have the 331/3 by Hugo Wickken on my favorite Bowie album, "Low".  It's
>>
>> only 138 pages; it's
>>>
>>> serious, but fun,
>>>
>>> and very well-written, and he doesn't waste any of the book revisiting
>>
>> Bowie's earlier
>>>
>>> glam-rock history and
>>>
>>> the whole Ziggy and the Spiders from Mars nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be much happier if 331/3 was being written not by someone from
>>
>> academia with an
>>>
>>> interest/specialty in
>>>
>>> revisiting NYC history, but someone such as Ellen Willis or Robert Palmer
>>> or
>>
>> Robert Christgau
>>>
>>> or Lisa Robinson
>>>
>>> or Greil Marcus or John Pareles, or *especially Richard Meltzer* [but no
>>
>> Dave Marsh or the
>>>
>>> dull-as-dishwater
>>>
>>> Simon Frith!]), i.e., people who know music and know M M intimately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of intimately, with apologies to the few women on this List,
>>> what
>>
>> it ultimately comes
>>>
>>> down to
>>>
>>> [and I'm half-serious here] in a crude, sort of NYC-punk-rock way, is
>>> that I
>>
>> am still extremely
>>>
>>> pissed-off
>>>
>>> that I missed-out getting laid about 50 times because of the stranglehold
>>
>> that the term 'punk'
>>>
>>> has had on
>>>
>>> Television these many years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Leo (the dirty old man)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PS: "We are sorry that we are unable to take advance credit card orders
>>> for
>>
>> out-of-stock or
>>>
>>> not-yet-published
>>>
>>> titles [331/3: M M] on this website. If you would like to place a credit
>>
>> card backorder, please
>>>
>>> contact customer
>>>
>>> service at 1-800-561-7704"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just placed mine.
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