[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Arrow Rerun #s / Brighton Parties / T.V.'s Complaint / Arrow Head Too slow / RE: (TV) The man who recorded the original "Arrow" boot says:

I located the article where Tom calls a ROIR CD release of "The Blow
 Up"   "completely illegal."  It's from Melody Maker, May 19, 1990, one
 of the articles among that collection I upped links for here a few times:

(Here's the link again for anyone here interested who missed it before:


Or, a tinyurl version of the same link:
t has about 60 articles dating from 1974 [Patti Smith's early review] to 19
90 I collected)

QUOTE: "The release of Television's 'The Blow Up' sess
ions on ROIR CD is a matter for some displeasure on Verlaine's part. He des
cribes the release as 'completely illegal' and promises that legal action w
ill follow."

That's all it says about it. So, evidently he was referri
ng to an earlier CD release rather than the '92 or '99 ones you refer to. I
 recall seeing the CD in a local store around that time, 1990, or late 1980
s. Maybe they got legalities sorted out after that for subsequent releases.


On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:53:17 PM, Leo Ca
sey <LeoCasey@comcast.net> wrote:
I bought my first copy of the vinyl
 Arrow bootleg at Bleecker Bob's record
store in the Village around 1980.
 Each LP had a blank white cardboard
cover/sleeve and each sleeve was sta
mped with its pressing # (mine reads:
ARROW RERUN F.85 #1,001). It had in
credible sound quality for a bootleg (and
I'm a hard grader).

I prac
tically wore it out (have since gotten a newer copy on e-bay).  So, I
as very happy in 1982 when ROIR released the cassette version that
ned twice as many songs of the legendary performance of March 20,
1978, M
y Father's Place, Roslyn Long Is. But I was terribly disappointed by
sound-quality of that ROIR cassette.  Nevertheless, I went thru/wore out

3 copies over the next 10 years.  :>) I also own the 2001 double vinyl

version and the 1999 remastered cd version (and Rovner's The Big One's

'Arrow Head').

At one point, a couple of days before one of my infa
mous dance-parties in
Brighton/Boston in 1982(which always featured lots 
of Television, Verlaine
solo albums, and Roxy Music), I attempted to crea
te a Reel-to-Reel Teac
recording for the party, which "grafted" Lloyd's i
ncredible, extended solo,
on the ROIR cassette version of 'Ain't That Not
hin'', onto the studio LP
version by using my using my cassette deck and 

RE: There's an old Tom interview somewhere where he says th
e ROIR CD of "The
Blow Up" that came out later after the cassette was "co
mpletely illegal."

I find this all somewhat strange and confusing sinc
e the **1999 remastered
cd** and 2001 remastered vinyl of "The Blow Up" b
oth have on them: "All
tracks selected by Tom Verlaine" and both are ROIR
 official releases.

Maybe the answer is that *1992 cd* (and 1992 doubl
e LP) of The Blow Up are
from a company/entity called Danceteria, DANLP03
0, France (and DANLP030,
France, 1992).  Although, they have written on
 them: "Licensed from ROIR",
maybe Danceteria's cd (and LP) were illegal]
, and it's Danceteria's cd (&
LP) about which T.V. was complaining. 

The Arrow Head bootleg version of the March 20, 1978 show has an incorre
speed, (it's too slow, needs its speed increased by 1.6%). This can be

determined easily by comparing the song-length of 'Marquee Moon' on the

remastered 1999 commercial (official) release cd with 'M M''s song-lengt
h on
the Arrow Head boot. 

On the 1999 remastered cd, 'M M', just th
e song itself (i.e., not counting
its track's silent lead-in) is 14:43.5 
versus 14:57.6 on the Arrowhead
bootleg version. (With both endings occur
ring with Ficca very short
drum-roll followed immediately by a final clic
k of the drum-sticks.) 


-----Original Message-----
From: tv
-owner@obbard.com [mailto:tv-owner@obbard.com] On Behalf Of Bob

Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 2:09 PM
To: tv@obbard.com
Subject: Re: 
(TV) The man who recorded the original "Arrow" boot says:

I think that
 Arrow boot taper 
likely sold me a cassette of that sh
ow back In '78 
or '79 along with a 
few other Television shows I mail-ord
ered.  As 
Dennis says, he was a mail-order tape seller. I recall at that 
time Trou
ser Press music mag was not a bad source for finding mail order ta
pe tra
ders/sellers as the mag printed 
their ads. One of the Television c
ettes I got via a seller's Trouser 
Press ad was a 1978 show at My Fat

her's Place, Roslyn, NY. My memory is 
the guy said in his catalogue/list

that it was his own recording. I 
can't say I have a clear memory of h
name 35 years on, or if it might 
have been "Acker", "Crackers", or 
." Of Television shows/recordings I got via mail order in the '70s o
n boots
cassettes, 10 or 12 maybe, that "My Father's Place" one was my fa
ve. Great
performance, plus the audio quality was better than most.

When "Th
e Blow Up" came out on cassette, I noticed it was the same sh
ow as I knew a
s the My Father's Place gig. I was disappointed it omitted
tion" though (which the taper explains about on the pie
ce he 
wrote that 
Keith kindly posted) which was on the tape I already
Plus the audio
quality was poorer on the official release. I nev
er owned the "Arrow" viny
l version that's supposed to sound better than 
cassette (no surprise
there), or the CD of "The Blow Up". 

There's an old Tom interview 
somewhere where he says the ROIR CD of "
The Blow 
Up" that came out later
after the cassette was "completely il
I'm guessing the casset
te was maybe authorized but not the
 CD (-?). Nice of the Arrow L.P. bootleg
ger to actually see to it that T
om received some royalties from it.

reed, it would be nice if Mr.
 Acker, or who ever the taper is, would make a
n audio file from his mast
er tape to share.

Robert Christgau & J
ohn Piccarella wrote th
e liner notes for "The Blow Up" cassette which I'm l
ooking at now.
e often found  Christgau's writing style & attitude i
rritating & 
rd to appreciate, but enjoyed these notes, which have thei
r moments. But
 who knows, maybe the best observations in them are Piccarell
a's, not Ch

I've scanned the front & back of the cassette in
sert for
 The Blow Up In case anyone who doesn't have them wants to read the
m, he

Or tinyurl versions of the same 
ks, as MM/TV list emails sometimes fail to have long URLs fully highl


On Monday, February 24, 2014 7:05:20 AM, Steve Rovner <se
ndspring.com> wrote:


Does he still have cas
Or a first generation copy?  Would be nice to get copies!

nal Message-----
>From: Dennis D <dend@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Feb 23, 2014 
9:33 PM
>To: tv@obbard.com
>Subject: Re: (TV) The
 man who recorded the 
original "Arrow" boot says:
>There was a tap
er back in the day that d
id a lot of mail order stuff under 
>the name
 of Charles R Ackers a/k/a C
>I always though he recorded that
 show. I had a copy of it well 
before it was 
>released as a bootleg. 
I can't remember Crackers real nam
e though,
>I haven't seen him since 
like 1980.
>Subject: RE: (TV) T
he man who recorded the original "A
rrow" boot says:
>Was his name Dan
.  I believe I know who he is.

>But thanks, I had no idea the Arrow
boot was the Roslyn show.

>Scott Simpson
>212 795 2846
-----Original Message-----

>From: tv-owner@obbard.com [mailto:tv-owner@ob
bard.com] On Behalf Of 
>Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 
4:21 PM
>To: tv@ob
>Subject: (TV) The man who recorded the orig
inal "Arrow" boot
>I moved to New York in the spring of 197
7, following a
 weekend jaunt which
>included a trip to CBGB for a first t
aste of liv
e Television.
>Returning to Ohio, I spent a trial night in an 
t at The Plaza in
>Cleveland recently vacated by an aspiring Cont
n. As I surveyed the
>frozen parking lot next morning to make sure m
Studebaker was still there,
>I decided that if I was going to move some

place scary and bleak, I might as
>well think big. But by the time I g
back to Manhattan, Richard Lloyd was
>in rehab in preparation for T
ion's European debut, so almost a year
>passed before I got the 
chance fo
r a recharge.
>When show day finally came I hid my Nakamichi 
550 in the b
ottom of a
>crumpled bag of thrift store shirts and set ou
t for Long Isla
nd, where the
>expected fireworks ensued. A couple of y
ears later a frien
d with a mail
>order record business (another big Te
levision fan) suggest
ed a bootleg of
>the big night. Most of them went
 to an exporter he worke
d with, but I would
>visit Bleecker Bob in the
 West Village a couple of t
imes a week to sell to
>this notorious chea
pskate, a pitiful few copies a
t a time. Although it was a
>steady sell
er in his shop, he refused to tie
up his working capital. He
>always co
mplained about the cover, too.
t some point, Neil Cooper of ROIR dec
ided to make a play for the cassette

>masters, advising my partner in 
crime that he intended to reissue with 
>without our cooperation. We
 eventually gave in, surprising Verlaine w
ith a
>modest royalty paymen
t the next time he came around to unload disp
>from his record
 collection - like the L'Intrepide Bavon Marie M
arie LP I
>took home. 
Whenever our little project is mentioned, there's a
lways a
 that the original vinyl boot sounds better than the B
low Up
 Well, we tried. Disc mastering was done at an upper crus
t Hollywood
establishment when Lindsey Buckingham had finally run out of
coke and gon
>home for the day, the metal stampers came from Europadisk
, the firs
>high-end facility of its kind in the US. I also rejected tes
t press
ings from
>three boroughs plants before I found one in outer Jerse
y th
at could handle
>grooves narrowed by the twenty-five minutes per side
unning time. It was
>only as I was preparing this post that I discovere

d The Blow Up omits Poor
>Circulation, Arrow's rarest gem.
>arrow (bootleg)
>double exposure f-85 (1980)
>01 Fire 
>02 Poor Circulation 5.31
>03 Little Johnny Jewel 14.44

>04 Kno
ckin' On Heaven's Door 8.07
>05 Prove It 5.20
>06 Friction
>07 (
I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 7.11

>Mitali du Mond
e said...
>Being that "mail order" dealer
d to here, I can veri
fy that the author (who was always an extremely
tasteful gentleman,and t
hough we're out of touch,one of the persons in m
>life I will always hav
e a warm spot for) took exceptional effort to
 asure a
>quality release. W
e were proud when Tom Verlaine wanted to "
legitimize" the
>recording, and
it was mainly done for the love of the 
music. The "master"
>was sold for
a very nominal fee to ROIR, and indee
d,several royalty payments
>were ma
de directly to the artist.(I embara
ssingly refused a 20% "tip" Tom
ed me, and some of my mail order
 customers got a unique bonus when
ine defaced the covers of the
 Italian "Eno demos" LPs I had by writing
egends such as "the info a
bout these recordings is pure bull.." on each and

>every cover!) And I
 still listen to a Bavon Marie Marie LP I also got w
>purchasing on
e of Tom's collections!!
>found here:

>"The Wonder - Tom Verlaine, Television & Stuff"
>To po
st: M
ail tv@obbard.com
>To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with me
age "unsubscribe tv"
>This email is free from viruses an

d malware because avast! Antivirus 
>protection is active.

>To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
To unsubs
cribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv" 

>To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
>To unsubscribe:
 Mail majordomo
@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"

To po
st: Mail tv@obbard.com
To unsubscribe: Mail majordom
o@obbard.com with mes
sage "unsubscribe tv"
To post: M
ail tv@obbard.com
To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message 
"unsubscribe tv"

To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"
To post: Mail tv@obbard.com
To unsubscribe: Mail majordomo@obbard.com with message "unsubscribe tv"