Re: (TV) i mean cookies

[SCOTT ALDRICH <scott.aldrich@worldnet.att.net>]

Philip, it just goes to show that good art moves people enough that they're
willing to argue it till they're blue in the face. And that is positive.
Cheap shot? OK. Your response  simply made me feel the way I did. I think my
response was reasonably thought out, however and not impulsive.

I do find Iggy's actions in the past (such as treating Scott and Ron Asheton
like hired hands and bad-mouthing them to get closer to art-rock queen David
Bowie) pretentious and ill-mannered (as well as alienating to his fan-base -
although by doing it he did garner a much larger audience), though that
doesn't mean I don't dig his music.

I don't find Patti's actions any more "ranting" than I do the artists I
mentioned previously. I think the fact that she is a woman does put some
people off that might otherwise not be by, say, John Lennon. But if it's
Yoko Ono...you can already hear the epithets rolling (not from you, or any
one on this list, but the rock record buying public at large).

I know that when Patti Smith sang, "Jesus died for somebody's sins but not
mine" it rang true in my heart, coming from a born-again dad, as I'm sure it
did in hers (coming from a Jehovahs Witness background). That was the
essence of punk rock to me. It was pure and pissed a lot of people off at
the time (my dad was convinced I was going to Hell for listening to it), as
I'm sure Sinead did by ripping up that picture of the pope on SNL. I went to
the Dylan tribute at Madison Square Garden many years ago when the crowd
booed her off the stage because of that incident. Dylan fans, the tolerant
radicals! It was pathetic. Yet I'm sure  a lot of those people have no
problem with John Lennon saying "we're bigger than Christ".

Done.

Scott



 

> From: "Philip P. Obbard" <pobbard@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: tv@obbard.com
> Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:35:30 -0800 (PST)
> To: tv@obbard.com
> Subject: Re: (TV) i mean cookies
> 
> Scott, I'll accept your arguably cheap shot: Ok, I guess "female" is a
> patronizing word. I won't use it again. But it's always seemed to me that
> outlandish XX artists (Madonna, Sinead) generally get much more media
> attention
> than outlandish XY artists (Klaus Nomi, Marc Almond, etc.). If nothing else,
> the relative rarity of artists with two XX chromosomes must make them more
> high-profile, I would think.
> 
> Well, anyhow, my opinion doesn't change if I call Patti Smith simply a
> "ranting
> artist". As for your example, I'm not really 'gaga' about Lou Reed after 1970
> (before which he was basically unknown), I don't think Iggy was particularly
> steeped in 'art rock' in his Stooges days (outside of a few Coltrane records)
> -
> and does Iggy show disdain for his fans?? -  and please find me a Hell or
> Verlaine interview as 'ranting' as this from the respective period directly
> following the release of their 'major' works:
> 
> "I consider [writing] a real physical act. When I'm home writing on the
> typerwriter, I go crazy. I move like a monkey. I've wet myself, I've come in
> my
> pants writing... Instead of shooting smack, I masturbate - fourteen times in a
> row..." -- Patti Smith, shortly after the release of HORSES
> 
> Sounds more like Madonna or Sinead than Tom Verlaine or Joni Mitchell, but
> that
> could just be my 'patronizing' read.
> 
> (As I said, I knew this topic would be a "Molotov cocktail"... I just didn't
> expect the cheap 'patronizing' shot to come so quickly... anyhow, I'm done
> now).
> 
> --Philip
> 
> --- SCOTT ALDRICH <scott.aldrich@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> I think the addition of the word "female" to "ranting artist" sounds
>> slightly patronizing, especially since we all enthusiastically go gaga over
>> countless other "raving artist"-types of the male persuasion, umm, Tom
>> Verlaine? Richard Hell? Iggy Pop? Lou Reed? Has the world ever seen such a
>> bunch of self-important, precious "artistes" revelling in their oh-so
>> artiness while still wanting to be rock stars, all the while showing disdain
>> for their fans?
> 
> 
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