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Re: (TV) 4th Album

Hi Andy,

I agree with a lot of what you wrote (and have develop a McCartney habit in the last few months, and I agree with your assessment there too), but I'm thinking about this:

"So, my feeling is that while Television could never have developed its
unique sound without Lloyd, Lloyd is clearly determined to move on
stylistically.  And since Verlaine's work as a solo artist has been more
consistently close to the original sound, it seems reasonable to assume
Verlaine will be able to carry the band."

Has Verlaine's work as a solo artist stayed close to the original sound? I disagree. By the mid-80s, Verlaine has strayed very far from the sounds of MARQUEE MOON. COVER does not like Television. FLASH LIGHT is guitar-based, but the songwriting style is short, compact, and personal (still a unique effort in Verlaine's career). THE WONDER foreshadows the stripped-down sound of the 1992 reunion album, which only occasionally sounds like "classic" Television (though it works well as a whole). 

Anyway, while I think it's not really Television without Richard Lloyd, I'd accept a new Television album with Rip happily. Lloyd adds plenty stylistically, but he's not the songwriter, and I think 3/4 of Television is better than none at all. I love Verlaine's first solo album, which is 1/2 of Television (Verlaine and Smith) -- 3/4 can only be an improvement on that. In the end, Verlaine can call it whatever he wants as long as he gets another record out there before I/he/we die.

--Phil





________________________________
From: andy fekete <andy.fekete@gmail.com>
To: tv@obbard.com
Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 4:28:37 AM
Subject: Re: (TV) 4th Album

"...it seems Lloyd plays in positions more often and Verlaine moves along
the neck more..."

That is a very astute observation;  I would also add that Lloyd showed
somewhat more affinity towards standard pentatonic blues/rock styling, which
he (mostly) kept in check when playing with Television, while Verlaine seems
not to have a single blues bone in his entire body.

And yet, both mined the same mixolydian and dorian mode vein, unadorned
sound and edgy, aggressive playing that over time defined the sound
associated with Television.  You know it when you hear it -- and yet it is
difficult to think of any band that can pull it off that sound...
Significantly, the nearest approximations seem to be some of Verlaine's solo
work, especially his live stuff, and a few early live recordings of Lloyd's
(while Lloyd's more recent Hendrix-inspired stuff is certainly energetic and
heartfelt, it doesn't come close to sounding like Television).

It's sort of like a Lennon / McCartney thing:  each brought something
distinct to the whole, and egged the other on, to create something entirely
new;  and when the whole ultimately split up, one continued to be able to
sound more or less like the whole, at least when he wanted to (don't laugh
-- you have to see McCartney's latest tour to understand the full meaning of
what I am saying here), while the other either would not or could not do so.

So, my feeling is that while Television could never have developed its
unique sound without Lloyd, Lloyd is clearly determined to move on
stylistically.  And since Verlaine's work as a solo artist has been more
consistently close to the original sound, it seems reasonable to assume
Verlaine will be able to carry the band.

Especially with Jimmy Rip on board.  Ever hear a decent recording of that
last show, at Central Park?   Granted, it's not Verlaine/Lloyd, but my god,
Verlaine and Rip tear it the f*ck up quite convincingly.

I have to say, I'd happily pay to see that.  Multiple times.

-A




On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:10 AM, BlackMonk <BlackMonk@msn.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy fekete" <andy.fekete@gmail.com>
> To: <tv@obbard.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:17 PM
>
> Subject: Re: (TV) 4th Album
>
>
>  I've seen enough, heard enough and played enough Television to know that
>> Lloyd's playing was crucial to Television's live shows, and to Verlaine's
>> own development as a soloist.
>>
>> Together Verlaine AND Lloyd developed that angular style of modal soloing
>> that is hard to define in words but is so distinctive as Television.
>>
>
> I'd say the two of them have distinct styles. Generalizing-and fully aware
> that half this list will point out specific examples where the
> generalization is wrong- it seems that Verlaine is more lyrical and Lloyd is
> more riff-based while soloing. From watching various videos of them playing
> live, it seems that Lloyd plays in positions more often and Verlaine moves
> along the neck more. Maybe there's a connection with the fact that Lloyd's
> first instrument was the drums and Verlaine started on saxophone.
>
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